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The Forum > Article Comments > GM: debate the science not the values > Comments

GM: debate the science not the values : Comments

By Max Rheese, published 4/6/2007

Those opposed to GM crops grasp at any argument to deny our farmers the freedom to choose.

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The same so called Environmental organisation---another IPA front organisation whose purpose is to deny that we have any kind of environmental crisis.

I refer one and all to the Seeds of Change website that I mentioned last week, the founder of which has proven by doing it that organic gardening/agriculture can outproduce any other system:

1. http://www.seedsofchange.com

The authour cites 11 years of success. What kind of a time scale is that to really judge the long term effects of such HUBRISTIC tampering with the very building blocks of organic life on this planet.

Of course I cant prove it, but isnt it completely obvious that somewhere down their will be some horrific unintended consequences---it may take many many decades, or even a hundred years or more. And once the genie is out of the bottle it will be impossible to put it back.

The author appeals to the "authority" of science rather than human values---or rather the values he does not support.
Trust me I am a scientist.
The fact of the matter is that there is no such as thing as "value free" science---especially the totally reductionist "science" that the IPA promotes.
WHOSE SCIENCE? would be an appropriate question.
Which organisations are pushing the GM agenda?
What is their record of genuine concern for human well-being?
Have they ever accepted responsibilty for their mistakes or have engaged a public relations firm to generate some soothing spin, or do they provide finance for a bogus IPA sponsored "environmental" organisation.
There are all kinds of unexamined presumptions behind the scientific materialist "world"-view. In effect it reduces everything, including Humankind, to chemical robots. The machines rule OK! Everything must submit to the one dimensional machine made "world"-view.

This reference examines the baneful reductionism of the "world"-view that the IPA promotes.

2. http://www.aboutadidam.org/lesser_alternatives/scientific_materialism/index.html
Posted by Ho Hum, Monday, 4 June 2007 10:32:23 AM
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We think that we acquire scientific knowledge and then naturally use it for various purposes. To do such science seems natural or automatic, but it is not. Rather it is the way the reductionist Western mind works. The Western mind is always in confrontation with matter, or Nature, assuming power over natural laws and events, and over masses of human beings. Such a process seems natural, but it is not. It is CULTURAL DISPOSITION that creates Western technology. Ultimately it seeks to gain power and control over everything including all human beings.

The normal dreadfully sane scientist has abolished True Wisdom from the realm of knowledge. The universe described by scientists is a meaningless mass of plastic garbage. It has no light and no fullness or significance. And if human existence is witjout significance, then why the hell should anybody care if short term profit rules. The irresponsible application of science is just a social extension of the self-divideness of Western man. Western man in particular has always misapplied knowledge.

Another dimension of presumption must therefore be brought to the culture of scientism. Otherwise no integrity,and no balance can be applied to the discoveries of science, and short term myopianism will rule.
Science is essentially a dissociated, analytical way of relating to everything. The "culture" that it has produced in its image now dominates the entire world. The dissociated TV indoctrinated every-person rules OK!

You can a proficient scientist with very few positive human qualities in evidence. You can be a totally degenerate, corrupt, maniacial personality, absolutely dissociated in your behaviour, filled with illusiuons and negative, cynical views, and still be a scientist.

The late Edward Teller was an archetypal example of such a "personality". He was much lauded by the ghouls that inhabitant the "right" wing USA think tanks that the IPA is associated with. The eulogies given at his passing were sickening.
Posted by Ho Hum, Monday, 4 June 2007 11:02:04 AM
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If the author honestly wants me to support GM food being introduced to Australia, they'd have to actually address the concerns being mooted - this article doesn't touch upon any of them.

For starters, I'd like them to address the claim that Australian canola has been a popular export due to European purchasers wanting to avoid GM product - with Australia's moratorium, we are one of the few places without risk of cross contamination.

I'd also like to see the concerns regarding copyright addressed - the ideas that GM food can be designed to only produce a few crops and that farmers can't reuse seed from their harvest without infringing copyright.

Yes - debate the science. This article doesn't.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Monday, 4 June 2007 11:24:25 AM
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TRTL, I am assuming that you are talking about the "Terminator" technology and Intellectual Property protection?

With respect to genetic "contamination" issues, Terminator technology is actually the solution to this perceived problem. If the seeds are unviable in the next generation, then the cross-pollination problems go away. It also costs a lot of money to research and produce GM crops, which is something that I am sure biotech companies would want a return on.

The main equation it comes down to with respect to IP and economics will be: will the farmer buy the grain? If it is economically viable to do so they will. Economic viability comes down to the balance of the cost of production versus the benefits/profits to the farmer. The cost of production can include the cost of the seed, cost of pesticides/herbicides, amount of water needed, any fertilizing agents and so on. GM can reduce all of those costs and increase the yield at the same time. If it is more beneficial for the farmer to do so, they will buy it, if not then the technology will fail to be taken up by the market.

I have heard concerns that Terminator technology is a threat to Third World agriculture, which is bunk, because farmers in those economies will not continue to buy seed that is uneconomical, just like in any other economy.
Posted by Bugsy, Monday, 4 June 2007 12:52:05 PM
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Spot on Bugsy.

I think the main issue with GM crops (apart from safety) is their potential to contaminate non-GM crops. I guess it comes down to either paying a little extra for GM seeds that will grow into sterile adults but having the peace of mind that contamination won't occur. Or having the once off cost of buying fertile seeds but the risk of contamination and probable lawsuits later down the track
Posted by Sparky, Monday, 4 June 2007 4:01:14 PM
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My understanding is the terminator gene technology was canned due to adverse publicity, perhaps wisely. The only problem is some other countries don't recognise the licensing process and use their own seed, and hence technology for free, putting Australian farmers at a competitive disadvantage

The Australian cotton industry have been using GM cotton for nearly 10 years now, mainly to reduce the number of insecticides.
In most cases farmers are applying 80% fewer sprays which has been an advantage for predatory insects which control secondary pests.
Posted by rojo, Monday, 4 June 2007 4:54:29 PM
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