Thank you, Yabby and CR!

RObert and aqvarivs, while I can see your point of view from a men’s angle, have you ever tried to look at it from a woman’s or child’s POV?
There is ALWAYS some risk involved by having intercourse unless the man or woman is sterile. Both partners need to take some risk, and the risks a woman has to take for biological reasons is always greater than just the financial risk it carries for men.

It seems like some men want to be totally risk free, thereby saddling up his partner with ALL of the risks just by having sex with him.
How does this really sound and are there any ladies that might be interested in sex with a man at all if he says something like:

“ Hey babe, I know that there is always a risk of pregnancy when we have sex, but I want to have sex with you without any risk at all.
I want to be free of all the risk that comes with having sex, I just want to enjoy it and will refuse any responsibility after.
So, if you want sex with me, you need to take all the risks. I have better things to do with my money.
If you fall pregnant, I wipe my hands clean off you, you’ll be on your own if you don’t make the choice I tell you to make, which is abortion. Don't care how poor the environment is that my kid bound to grow up in.

Not my fault if you make stupid decisions or feel silly emotional connections with or even love and care for a bunch of cells and become all over-protective!

Now, before we make love, sign this agreement- otherwise you may take me to court later and some unfair judge might agree with an outdated law which is more concerned about the welfare of a child than the rights and life style of fathers. Children need protection from the mistakes of their parents? That’s unfair rubbish!”

Anyone interested in this kind of foreplay?

Maryse Usher in an earlier post you said you were a volunteer counsellor.

Now you are saying that pro-lifers stand outside abortion clinics peacefully praying. Not what I saw last time I drove down Wellington Parade in East Melbourne. What's peaceful about shooting a security guard, the father of 5 children?

Your next point was that a human fetus looks like a baby at birth. Not in the birth atlas I looked at. A kangaroo fetus looks like a human fetus to my untrained eye. My understanding is that an 8 week old fetus can be vacuumed out and is the size of a large blood clot.

Post abortion grief is probably the province of those who go through life playing victim because its the only way they can use your services.

Abortion is never a private, autonomous event - but neither should it be in the public arena where women can be publicly named and shamed by pro lifers. Its absolutely scandalous that there is a special medicare number for abortion.

And Maryse we don't need those aborted babies. I know the federal government has increased immigration into Australia but we don't need any more mouths to feed - we are destroying this country's ability to feed itself as we refuse to acknowledge global warming and the increasing driness of our continent.

Yabby along with many pro abortionist is entrenched in the hopelessly flawed theory of evolution. Karl Marx was another who was brainwashed by this theory leading to millions of deaths. They hold to their dogmas and often have more 'faith' than what many believers in God have. This is why they can't even see what a 2 year old can see when it comes to an unborn baby. The dogma of evolutionary thinking might ease the conscience for some but can't disguise what the killing of the unborn plainly is.

Peter Knight, the man who shot a guard at the Wellington Parade abortuary, was NOT a prolifer. He appeared out of the blue, tried to enlist prolifers and failed. He might well have lost a child in that abortion clinic, for all we know. He was not a member of any prolife organisation, nor did anyone know him. And Billie, if you saw someone swearing and yelling and kicking signs around outside the clinic, that was the guard, not the prolifers.
If people are going into the abortion clinic convinced they are doing nothing wrong, why would they feel ashamed? Prolifers do nothing to "make" them ashamed; they're just there.
I did not say an 8-week foetus (Latin for 'little one'" by the way) looked like a baby at birth. It looks exactly what it is, a small, mangled, dismembered human being. "Clot" is precisely the kind of description used by those who refuse to recognise the humanity of the unborn baby.
As for equating eggs and sperm with a unique, living, growing human being... well, I can only say I have never listened to a man or woman in a state of emotional agony because they're missing their departed eggs and sperm. No, it's the aborted baby they're missing.
The problems of life are never solved by killing people, whether they're young or old, small or large.

Nice job Celivia, it's your body on the underlining question A but, mens financial responsibility if you choose option B. So men have no choice in the matter until birth, then if they don't take up the financial responsibility they're creeps. Excellent reasoning and way to value men. "Keep out of my life unless your paying to be there. Otherwise we women just don't need you".

Around one in three Australian women will undergo an abortion. Unwanted pregnancy can affect any woman of childbearing age, but studies show that some women are at greater risk than others. The typical profile of a woman seeking abortion includes:

* Aged in her 20s
* Single
* Childless
* Well educated
* Employed.
www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au

Foreplay? I doubt that is her driving concern. Instant gratification and the next rung up the corporate ladder would be more to the truth.
It takes some clever spin to create a victim out of anyone matching that profile. Celivia my little spin sister.

I am afraid that abortion in its current practice and laws is at an end...

Technology is the cause...they show a living baby responding to stimuli including voice of mother and father in the womb...

when the current laws enacted such information did not exist...

Now generally no doctor would 'refer' a woman to an abortionist until they have fulfilled their duty to the higher standard of assessment which I suppose include/should interviewing the real father...a woman without such a referral would not be able/difficult to get an medical abortionist to preform the procedure...

so change is already happening...but what is in our control, the common people, is to avoid risk of pregnancy...for an unplanned pregnancy is essentially this...for own pleasure an lovingly responding, totally dependent and totally helpless little human is placed at risk of death...and that is never on...

Sam