Men can't win on this one.

On the one hand we have "After that, women started to become male possesions, marriage being the process." http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5805#79785

and then

"So, if this is a problem for society it can only be solved by you blokes fixing up your need for sex without commitment or intimacy." http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5805#80067

On the one hand committment is ownership of women and on the other finding an alternative is a problem. Fair go.

Seriously though - I find it difficult to cut through the spin regarding prostitution and understand what is really happening for the participants. Particularly those who use it to get some intimacy (even if a very shallow version) because they can't find it elsewhere.

The moralistic opposition to prositution and the money made by prostitutes and their hangers on is such that everything we hear about it is likely to be loaded with spin.

I'm concerned that some are forced into prostitution because of a need for money to feed drug habits but the issue there would seem to be the way we handle the drug problem rather than prostitution itself.

I don't know a way to make sexual contact available for those unable to be part of a viable relationship and I don't share the view that they should be denied sexual contact with a consenting adult just because the common interest is cash. Possibly a far more honest and less damaging exchange than some of the other ones people go through to get sex, committment or intimacy.

aqvarivs made some good points very early in the thread "http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5805#79560" - worth a reread.

R0bert

Members of the early church were deeply committed to the belief that the second coming was imminent while holding to the principle that sex was primarily for procreation. Paul advocated celibacy in view of the imminent eschaton and the need for Christians to prepare themselves for it. Children would only be a distraction and were not needed in such a short-term view of the world.
Clearly, for all their 'wise' contribution to early Christian theology they just did not really understand what Jesus was on about and regarded sex as a consequence of the fall and therefore essentially sinful. Paul turns out to be a very poor guide/teacher on the subject of sex guided as he appears to have been by his own sexual inadequacy and his flawed eschatology. This was carried on by many of the Early Church Fathers and institutionalised in the celibate priesthood of the Roman Church.
The OT presents a broader and more considered range of views on sexuality. It is more sympathetic and sensible than the NT writings and the cogitations of the Early Church Fathers, though its punishments for certain transgressions were pretty severe.

'The journey down to the abyss
Is prosperous and light,
The palace gates of gloomy Dis
Stand open day and night;
But upward to retrace the way
And pass into the light of day,
There comes the stress of labour; this
May task a hero's might.'

Virgil (~ 50 B.C.)

Morally wrong? As opposed to what? Husbands taking their "rights".

Could someone here please point to where all these morals and sins are held so I can see which ones I haven't committed yet. Might be fun. After all we are allowed to have fun aren't we? Or isn't it on the list of things to do?

Point to the Bible if you wish but do tell us who wrote what bits, and based on what.

Yabby-: "I guess the argument could be made that prostitution is more moral than marrying for money"

I agree,in fact I advised every woman in one of my posts recently to stop this stupid virgin and good wife game, get on the pill and charge every man for sex and enjoy themselves. Play the game the way the men play it, is what I said. I believe the point that Sells is making is that any race that doesnt procreate will become a dying race overrun by the more religious races that do procreate, (only because they hold women captive to motherhood).

The brothel in my city has a big wall around it to protect the identity of the clients. If they are not doing anything wrong why do they need the wall??

Answer;- because they know they are sleeping with other womens husbands and that it's wrong just as the husbands do.

I believed in marriage and having children all my life until recently when the setting up of these brothels by the state and all the sex adds in the paper have really angered me. Its plain to me that marriage is dead in the water. If I was a young woman today Id play the game the way the men do and I wouldnt have children and I intend to advise my granddaughters to do the same.
You can argue the rights and wrongs about religion but in the end it will be the reaction of women in society who may refuse to commit to marriage and having children if they are left holding the baby and twotimed by the men. Hence the walls around the brothels.
Thats what the men are afraid of and well they might be. They want their cake and eat it too they may turn around one day and find the women have done the same. We have the pill today which gives us the same freedom. Maybe thats the end result that Sells is pointing to. I think he's probably right.

sharkfin, you seem to be pushing the line that women get left holding the baby by men that desert the them. That does happen but the stats I've seen suggest that over 70% of marriage breakups are initiated by the women (some may have good reason - my comment is not about who is at fault) and as a single dad I've seen how vigorous womens groups have been in opposing the push for a presumption of equal shared care following seperation.

Some men do desert partners and their kids but others desperately want the care of their kids and a denied it by women and a system which all to often treats kids as a womans possession.

Have a look through the submissions to the enquiry that was run a few years ago into child custody following seperation and see which advocacy groups were supporting "women being left holding the baby" and which were supporting shared care. http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/fca/childcustody/report.htm

Start with a presumption of shared care and responsibility and then deal with the exceptions and some of your concerns might go away.

R0ber