It's true that there exists a broad neo-liberal consensus and it is true that this means that, essentially, a Rudd Government will not differ in fundamentals to a Howard Government certainly so far as economic policy is concerned, although there is no mention here of Kim Carr's push for industry policy. This consensus, however, operates at the elite level and does not include the population who oppose privatisation, oppose "free trade" agreements, are in favour of fiscal policies that increase spending even at the expense of tax increases and such. What Prasser demonstrates, no doubt unwittingly, is that we live in a corporate dominated society where the preferences of the rich matter rather than most Australians.

At any rate, there are differences at the margin between the ALP and Howard and they are reason enough to vote Labor, if what happens to people matters to you.

Yes, all lefty things are on the retreat. Old socialists like me are just "left" to lick their wounds.

For instance, old growth forests (which always leaned to the left) are in retreat everywhere. Right-leaning clearfelled tracts of land can be seen from space; such a symbol of conservatism on the march.

Could there be anything more left-leaning than the atmosphere? Right-leaning co2 and methane are in the ascendancy everywhere - abandon hope you old lefty oxygen breathers. Your time is up!

Even as we write, a gale of conservatism is preparing to rattle our windows, bringing rain or not, at the whim of the new order. Now our food is really at the whim of free market, like never before.

Yes, the signs and portents are everywhere. Conservatives can stick their chests out and be proud of a job well done.

"Such policies, after all, are delivering so much prosperity" are they really?

Real average weekly ordinary time earnings are now falling and have been negative for the past 3 quarters, housing un-affordability at an all time high.

Interest payments on housing and other personal debt as a proportion of household gross disposable income at 11.7% the highest in decades.

Household liabilities at 158.7% of income.

The debt crunch is coming, but conservatives tell us we have never had it so good.

BOAZ=CONSERVATIVE.....but I'm not sure what you blokes are on about when you suggest that the issues raised by Chris and Ruawake are promoted by 'conservative's.... it just does not gel. I think we need new words.
"Morally Conservative" does not =EconomicRationalist/RightWing. but it sure means standing up for moral principles which we believe are abiding and unchanging and... for many of us, divinely sanctioned.

I think the 'Progressive/Conservative' dichotomy is WELLLL past it's use-by date.

I support many issues claimed to be 'lefty' economically, but on the moral level no way in hell. Please refer my thread 'Cave Sex' for reasons why.

I believe that we are witnessing nothing less than the humanistic/existential outcome of abandoning God. Its being expressed in economic rationalist, free trade, free market terminology but it all boils down to the power of HUGE corporations right ?

Economic Globalism is the closest thing to making us all slaves than anything else. The point made by Ruawake about household debt and interest, is one of those "like it or we will lump YOU" situations, where the huge corporations holding the reigns of power can simply choose to opt out of our country and select better 'margin' pickings elsewhere. They can dump us and there is squat we can do about it.

The only thing BEING done in the midst of all this is an entrenching of remaining Union power, and a FOCUS on the large infrastructure and on corporations which for various reasons cannot just 'opt out'.

For example.. the BLF..oops..sorry, I mean the CFMEU has big building companies by the balls. Do they care about the small laborer who is out in the suburbs? nah..not a scrap, they focus on those in the city and extract all manner of benefit from them and in my opinion, they do it in an extortive immoral manner.

The problem with Labor/Coalition is that it isn't choice. Greens are whackos' and Dems..who? FF are ok in my view but too small and will be kept that way by the 'BIG' players.

Boaz... I'm going to sound all school-teacherish here, but you've touched on what I think are the most defining elements in society that need to be outlined more clearly to all Australians - liberalism and conservatism are very broad concepts that can be applied to many elements in society, though typically, they tend to be grouped into one of two categories: economic and cultural.

This article is entirely about the economic sphere.

The entire debate in each sphere rests on the level of government intervention versus personal responsibility.

Now the terms used differ slighty between the two spheres - when referring to economic spheres we have classic liberalism and socialism, as well as social liberalism which is in-between.
Socialism refers to government control of markets while classic liberalism refers to government having very little responsibility at all. Social liberalism refers to government controlling some spheres of life and picking up the slack where the market isn't working in the nation's interest.

Now the concepts you're on to are cultural and I suspect we come from opposing ends of the spectrum. This is the simple liberal - conservative divide, and boils down to whether the government should have say on cultural issues - drugs and abortions are some crucial issues in western civilisation, but when referring to other cultures, and as Islam's a hot topic these days, ironically the muslim regimes would be best described as neo-conservative.
It's rather interesting that the prime opponents of these regimes tend to be cultural conservatives from the west rather than liberals... funny world sometimes.

The other interesting dichotomy, is that economic liberalism tends to be married with cultural conservatism - observe the coalition and the American republicans to see what I mean. This is why one of Australia's culturally conservative party is known as 'Liberal.'

Prasser's referring to more classic economic liberalism (which ironically, tends to be referred to as conservatism, due to the associations... yeah, it's confusing) and it can't be denied that broadly speaking, Australia has drifted very far into economically liberal policies.

Culturally speaking however, I'd say we've gone the opposite...

Well Australians are sure not conserving the environment, water or soil.
They are rushing blindly after their leaders to sell Australian real-estate and its assets off to the rest of the world in exchange for unbelievable debt. Most Australians are hopelessly uneducated in any discipline which would permit them to see through the lemming-economic mantras of our religion-blinded electoral choices.

The mainstream media run the elections in any case.

One's only choice would be to vote labour although I think that just gets us the same media and they run the country as well as the elections, and reap the profits of our governments' policies which the rest of us all pay for.

Could be that Australian elections are just not worth intelligent participation any more. Revolution would make sense but who will revolt whilst they still have food in their bellies?

Kanga