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The Forum > Article Comments > The liturgy of the Church > Comments

The liturgy of the Church : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 5/4/2007

Christian worship is serious holy play: we should attend Church in fear and trembling not knowing where we will be led.

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Netab,

The Holy Guide metaphor for the role of the Divine in Christian Liturgy is quite misleading. This seems to me a clear misunderstanding of the liturgy. If Holy Guide is the role of God in Greek Tragedy then that would be a major point of difference between Greek Drama and Christian Liturgy and evidence that the two are not as closely related as you suggest.
As for manipulation through the liturgy, it has always been there and was certainly no less the case when the liturgy was conducted in Latin.
Personally I would prefer the liturgy to be conducted in Latin and that the congregation have sufficient grasp of Latin to understand it. The reason, however, is that we might then access the vast body of liturgical texts and sacred music that have been either lost or diminished by translation into the vernacular.
While a psychological analysis of the liturgy may be quite valid, I believe yours is quite wide of the mark.
Posted by waterboy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 9:20:20 AM
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As a student I remember being interested in the psychological aspects of Christian worship but I soon came to understand that this could never be the central focus. Our problem in this is the great turn to the self initiated by Descartes that places the self at the centre of everything we do. What happens in liturgy is a turn away from the self towards God, the self takes second place. Since James published “The varieties of religious experience” religion has been about subjectivity hence the psychologising trend. It is after all only about us and that reveals how deep our atheism goes. We attend liturgy in the hope that we will be addressed from outside of our subjectivity which in our time has become a locked cage. You do not have to be a supernatualist to expect this kind of address but you do need humility.
Posted by Sells, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 10:02:42 AM
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I see no harm in letting the psychologists loose on the liturgy.
It is like looking at a beetle through a magnifying glass, you will not discover the essence of the beetle but you will learn something.
Perhaps it would expose some of the problems with pop-worship, which is an intensely individualistic and psychological affair.
Posted by waterboy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 10:45:29 AM
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waterboy,
Thanks for your comments. I may not have been as clear as I should but by 'holy guide' I referred to the priestly or leadership function. In the Greek Tragedy's this function was found in the chorus or narrator. I don't agree with your comments re Latin; Latin is a very evocative language for those that understand it and for those that didn't, it heightened the sense of the mystery unfolding in the rites.
Sells,
Thanks also. I take your point about the promotion of egoism in spiritual matters but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The attendance at liturgy is a holistic sensory experience that leads us away from ourselves / ego to the point of a fundamental understanding of our identity in the experience of the renewal in the mystery of the God / Man figure of the risen Christ. But the road away from the ego to the body and blood of Christ, is a road of psychological preperation
Posted by Netab, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 10:58:52 AM
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Why Latin? Jesus would jave used [Attic] Greek and Arimaic? Jesus' Cheraei are Greek and more educated than the Koine Greek of the Theological Schools. Personally, those you do believe should do so in their mother tongue. Higher specialised scholarship should be available but not necessarily of the Bible School variety.

Latin is a precise language but it is lesser choice than Attic Greek for philosophical topics.

Latin and languages not understood by the broad congregation is okay for communion of the devout and fellowship: But, having the word of any supposed God should be an open system, like UNIX.
Posted by Oliver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 10:11:33 PM
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"Our problem in this is the great turn to the self initiated by Descartes that places the self at the centre of everything we do." - Sells

Peter, Descartes was a Philosopher. Humanist Psychology is concerned with the good health of the individual and holding all people "in unconditional positive regard" (Rogers). It is no selfish. Similarly, self-actualisation (Maslow) is a sign of mental health. Anthromophism lies more in the realm of the Christian church, which placed humanity at the centre of the Universe. [I studied Psych. at Sydney and UC Berkely. Four years I, II, two III majors). I don't practice, as I have three higher degrees].
Posted by Oliver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 10:25:38 PM
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