Country Gal, statistics can mislead. Numbers of Indigenous people compared to non-Indigenous people in the various States are one thing; proportions or ratios are quite another.

Likewise, in your earlier posting, you cited a study that found that over the last 40 years Indigenous life expectancy has risen faster than average Australian life expectancy. You were right - the base starting points were different. While there is some improvement in Indigenous health the life expectancy gap remains unacceptable.

I’m happy that you do not think someone is more predisposed to crime because of their skin colour and that upbringing and economic circumstance are much more important factors.

However, your experience in NSW leads you to believe that Indigenous Australians are less likely to be arrested and charged with an offence than white Australians for the same offence. If you are right about that, given the reality for Indigenous people - 2.4% of the population but 20% of all prisoners in Australian gaols - surely you have a paradox to explain? You’re saying the police are reluctant to arrest Indigenous people because they won’t get convictions, but the irrefutable facts are that Indigenous people are 11 times more likely to be in gaol than non-Indigenous. Perhaps your experience of police is not typical?

Your statement: “over-representation in the prison population is due to the fact that they are committing far more crimes”, even if true, doesn’t explain the situation and therefore provides no suggestions for improvement other than the draconian zero tolerance. The question we should ask is: “Why are crimes committed? It might also be helpful to compare the crime types that lead to prison. In WA two-thirds of all prison offenders for motor vehicle or driving offences were Indigenous; nearly half of all female Indigenous prisoners were imprisoned for fine-default. (www.crc.law.uwa.edu.au/facts__and__figures/statistical_report_2004)

You have to wonder whether prisons have revolving doors. Mick Dodson said in 1996: ‘Our young people return from gaol to the very same conditions of daily existence that create the patterns of offending in the first place’. (www.hreoc.gov.au/Social_Justice/sj_reports.html#96)

FrankGol, I am not disagreeing with you, particularly in relation to statistics and what they really show!!

I also agree that the only way to make a difference is to target the cause of the crime -this is especially so if the police are more reluctant to act on indigenous crime anyway. This reluctance may in fact be why driving offences and fine defaults make up such a large part of the prisoners -they are objective and there can be no cry of racism. Either you paid your fine or you didnt. Reluctance is certainly well known in the context of domestic violence and sexual abuse. In recent times many indigenous people have spoken out against the goings-on in various communities. Even where I lived, it was well known that once a girl turned 5, they were fair game, and we certainly were not a remote community (although not coastal either). Would the cops do anything about this? Of course not, their hands were tied because the mission residents would close ranks and refuse to give out any information. How are we supposed to stop this far more serious crime if the communities will not assist?

I still think that its an issue that only generations can fix. I point out that indigenous life expectancy is rising faster than the average life expectancy with the point that it is only time that will fix this. Does this mean we should stop spending the money on it? No, of course not.But we need to recognise that firstly the indigenous population started well behind the eight-ball in terms of life expectancy, and as a result they have been gaining on the general population. Secondly to compare to other indigenous nations is also a fallacy, as most other similar countries (US & Canada for example) have been settled for far longer than Australia, and thus the indigenous population has had more time to catch-up to the general population (read longer access to white-man's medicine).In addition to this, rarely are their indigenous communities as remote as here, also giving better access to health care.

Great cynicism my pigment deficient friend,

Again, the silence of the political parties is deafening.

Why can they ignore the Oxfam efforts...because there is not enough public interests. Has anyone visited some of the blogs after Thorpe and Freeman launched this campaign?

The hatred of the responses was terrible. Again deomstrating that this supposed minority of race hating public are alive and active in any online environment.

Very sad.

I would like to thank you Country Gal for pointing out that because indigenous Australians on the whole are dying younger than should be tolerated that is a good development because their short lives are a few years longer than when they suffered direct persecution 40 years ago. I laughed so hard I nearly suffered a hernia. It reminded me of economists pointing out that the famine in Ethiopia attracted investment.

Leigh , the problem has been that Australian Governments have never really investigated as to why Indigenous Australians for the most part have become disaffected. Australia has never come to terms with why many components of this society are disaffected. Ring highlights this in his sarcasm that he calls “these rosey times”. This describes what we have evolved into - a dysfunctional economy and a marginalist society is taken for granted as experiencing a golden era by the media on the sole basis that it is said so rather than it is so. We have rediscovered the rhetoric of imperialist Britain and the Carter-ist and Reagan-ist era rhetoric’s of the U.S. Governments and media have found talking the talk is easier than walking the walk. Despite the resource boom, many Australians are abandoned, if we don’t act now to be all inclusive in four or more years when this boom is all over we will have deep seated problems to deal with.

Is the country negative? That depends on who you ask, perhaps we can learn from the last rosey era when Australian iconic role models were Allen Bond and Christopher Skase.

Keating complained when he lost the election that he had brought Australians to the light at the end of the tunnel; here we are in that brilliant light. In this brilliant time we can supply services to mining companies in remote areas but we cant supply them to indigenous communities. China is not to far too have a packet of 80 cent packet of plastic clothes pegs imported but a three hour drive from the east coast is to far for life to be properly valued.

A point to consider is come election time all of a sudden this utopia of a nation suddenly finds "Battlers" in sufficient numbers to warrant bribing for votes via the federal budget.

All of a sudden these 'down trodden Australians" which have been a whinging nuisance such as families need real assistance because their problems which have been fake up until the election are suddenly real problems. Marginalised Australians, special needs Australians still get ignored as fragmented groups they do not have the democratic power vote in regime change and so too fragmented to be considered as having valuable lives within Australia.

Who really are the true whingers? Those in need? Those bleeding hearts who get off their backsides to help others. I fear it is the lazy good for nothing apathetic who do nothing but complain about bleeding hearts and the needy, for they are the true blue complainers of this world.

They may support the shock jock economy , make current affairs programs lucrative advertisement spinners , get governments re-elected , they may have the paternalistic power to hold the status quo , force economic and moral inertia but in possible response to me for this post I give you apathetics a pre-emprive in your own lazy whiney way " what - ever !".