“Why is this country so negative?” asks Ring.

Is the country negative, or is it just people like him who love to spread doom and gloom to keep them in the public eye and in a job?

Ring’s tongue in cheek/sarcastic remark about being ‘maudlin’ over aborigines doesn’t go down at all well from this renegade white man who is always harping on the aboriginal ‘problem’; a problem mainly incurred by the aborigines themselves and people like Ring who urge them on.

If Ring wants to hate himself and his own race for what he imagines has been done to aboriginal Australians, that’s his business. We should wish him all the bitterness and unhappiness he wants.

But this same old nonsense from him is a pain. It has been around for the 200 or so years since we ‘stole’ the country from the poor old indigenes, who were making such wonderful progress on their own, and it will be around in another 200 years.

And, there will be someone like Graham Ring moaning and groaning away.

Graham can you really complain about ATSIC being scrapped?

Wasn't it hopelessly corrupt?

Does anyone know the per capita spending on healthcare for Indigenous vs. non-indigenous?

cheers,

gw

Well Leigh, you are the expert on being negative...

The way I read the article, it was actually kind of lighthearted in a wry kind of way.

Graham Ring makes good sense. I’ve celebrated this round of tax cuts with the purchase of some blue shoes. Its not that I didn’t already have blue shoes, just not the right shade. You see I bought a whole lot of blue shirts after the last round of tax cuts and my existing blue shoes didn’t quite match. Now I have a new pair and I can buy more across the year with all this extra money. Guilt free –this was extra money I didn’t need. And, hey, aren’t I helping the economy – retail sector and all? Or was there some issue about interest rates?

Anyhow, what good would it do the economy if our tax money just went down the drain trying to educate and provide affordable, healthy food for remote living indigenous kids? Its not like they can contribute to the economy – after all, Aborigines can’t get a job. We’re the smart country - there are no jobs for kids without an education!

Anyway, I’ve got an idea for a campaign that could help Oxfam really do some good. Since our family expanded (baby bonus and all) I’ve found we don’t have a spare bedroom anymore (first homeowners grant only bought a small house) and I guess that means there’s nowhere to call a study or have the sofa bed so friends can stay if they get drunk after dinner parties (not drunk as in petrol sniffing drunk – just a bit too much good wine). We need to upgrade to a bigger house. So I though, in the same way the government gives you money to buy a house (hey – why don’t remote living aborigines just buy a house in the city where the health statistics are much better – yeah?) … I think the government should give out a “Home-upgraders’ Grant”. I reckon an extra bathroom would be good too. And if you got in early then you’d beat the inflationary effect of the grant. What about that Oxfam – a bit more productive than throwing good money after a lost cause?

Hey GW - recent economic analysis that averages per capita comparisons across Australia (state & federal) show that health expenditure by government's on Aboriginal people is lower than health expenditure per capita on the populace generally. This is largely due to the greater likelihood of Aboriginal people living in areas where they do not have easy access to Medicare funded GPs or state funded public hospitals. Can't remember the details of the paper but I can look it up for you if you're interested in reading something that's evidence based rather than speculative.

Perhaps the author could spend a year living in an aboriginal community as they do. With their assets, their health protection and their access to modern facilities.

Then you too Graham would be screaming for anybody, Oxfam too, to help.

Diseases are rife in these places mate, diseases we don't worry about at all.

Keep walking across bridges but don't risk crossing the one that divides white from balck. It's too scary over there.

Re the economy. It is booming, but for who. Not indigenous, homeless, pensioners, those with a mortgage on low wages, single parents, abandoned kids. Gosh, who's left? Or right?

TRTL, I would have used sarcastic as the term to explain the tone of the article, but yes, certainly not serious.

Shell, I'd appreciate some links to information if you are able to get them. I did some digging around on the Net last night re figures about life expectancy. Problem is that even the best records only go back 40 years, and those are for the NT, which would arguably be worse than the rest of Australia given the large number of remote communities. Even so, the study I found shows that over the last 40 years indigenous life expectancy has risen by between 8-14 years, while average australian life expectancy has risen by between 9-11 years in the same time frame. This suggest to me that perhaps the indigenous population started behind the 8-ball, so to speak. At any rate, the rate of increase in life expectancy is faster than for the general population, even given the large number in remote communities. That suggests to me that the push for better health care is achieving something. There is no magic wand approach though, and people in general need to stop expecting that.

In relation to statistics, while I was digging around for the above, I came across a report on prison populations, that suggested that the indigenous percentage of the overall prison population was 20%, with aboringal deaths making up 18% of total deaths in custody. That strikes me as very interesting - to me this says there is no crisis at all. In fact aboriginies are less likely to die in jail than the general prison population. I intend to get back on the Net tonight and look into this a little more....

Yeah Shell, would really appreciate any links to per capita spending.

I'd also be interested to know if the difference in negative health outcomes varied depending on location, i.e are aboriginal people living in cities more healthy than those living in rural areas?

If so then maybe the answer is to just increase funding in rural areas?

Is this an issue that applies to all people in rural areas? Is a poor white person living in the bush likely to suffer the same issues?

cheers,

gw

Such a sarcastic simple blame the Government approach to far more complex issues. If pouring bucket loads of money was the answer to indigneous health then Bob Hawke would of seen poverty vanish among all children in this country as he had promised.

Country Girl, you are right to say that Indigenous deaths in custody are now roughly commensurate with their proportion of the prison population. However, when you ‘look into this a little more’, would you consider why 20% of all prisoners in Australia are Indigenous – that is, why Indigenous Australians who make up 2.4% of the population are 11 times more likely to be in gaol than the rest of us? (ABS 4102.0 - Australian Social Trends, 2005 gives a succinct summary of some key points; the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody set up in 1987 gives a more detailed analysis.)

Self-styled ‘renegade white men’ like Leigh dismiss all this as ‘a problem mainly incurred by the aborigines themselves and people like Ring who urge them on’.

If you think there is something inherent in the people’s make-up to explain their disproportionate rates on imprisonment, you might like to explain why Western Australia has a ratio of Indigenous to non-Indigenous prisoners of 17 to 1; whereas in Tasmania the Indigenous rates are four times the non-Indigenous rates (ABS 4102.0). Why would there be such a wide discrepancy between the various jurisdictions unless there were political, economic and social policy differences that make a difference?

There is a up-to-date and reliable summary of statistics including a discussion of the problems of being too gung-ho about life expectancy data at:
www.humanrights.gov.au/social_justice/statistics/index.html#fnB55

Not that ‘renegade white men’ would be interested in this ‘same old nonsense’. Their minds have been locked up too long.

FrankGol, I expect that the disparaties between WA and TAS can be explained by their overall number of indigenous people. Eg, very few in TAS - original inhabitants completely wiped out, vs lots in WA (remote communities and the like).

I am not one of those that think someone is more predisposed to crime because of their skin colour. I do think though that people are predisposed to crime (and much of it is continual petty crime) based on their upbringing and their ecomonic circumstance (eg those working full time just rarely have the time to be petty criminals). Going off my experiences of living in NSW towns with 80% indigenous population, they are less likely to be arrested and charged with an offence than if same crime had been committed by the white population. The comment when reporting broken shop windows, stolen goods, house break-ins from the local police.... "Were they black? Yes, well then forget it, we cant arrest them - if we do they'll only cry racism and the judge will throw it out of court". Didnt matter if you saw them do it or if caught on camera. The police werent interested in doing anything. Based on what I have seen from this, I believe that any over-representation in the prison population is due to the fact that they are committing far more crimes (apart from perhaps the NT with their zero tolerance approach).

Excellent article. At first I thought it was a serious attempt by Windshuttle or Albrechtsen, who are convinced that there are still reds under the beds and that nothing bad happened to indigenous Australians as a result of white invasion and subsequent government, church and social actions.

As far as funding analysis goes, I would like to know what percentage of bureaucrats working in Aboriginal health and welfare (and what percentage of the budget expenditure on these items) live and work on the coast as opposed to the remote inland, where the worst conditions seem to be. The figure I heard was that over 90% of bureaucrats working in the so-called "indigenous industry" are in coastal settlements, generally larger regional centres and that there are very few government workers prepared to go out in to the real problem areas. I don't believe throwing more money at the problem will help, perhaps it would be better to spend the money more appropriately, in the areas of the most need.

Country Gal, statistics can mislead. Numbers of Indigenous people compared to non-Indigenous people in the various States are one thing; proportions or ratios are quite another.

Likewise, in your earlier posting, you cited a study that found that over the last 40 years Indigenous life expectancy has risen faster than average Australian life expectancy. You were right - the base starting points were different. While there is some improvement in Indigenous health the life expectancy gap remains unacceptable.

I’m happy that you do not think someone is more predisposed to crime because of their skin colour and that upbringing and economic circumstance are much more important factors.

However, your experience in NSW leads you to believe that Indigenous Australians are less likely to be arrested and charged with an offence than white Australians for the same offence. If you are right about that, given the reality for Indigenous people - 2.4% of the population but 20% of all prisoners in Australian gaols - surely you have a paradox to explain? You’re saying the police are reluctant to arrest Indigenous people because they won’t get convictions, but the irrefutable facts are that Indigenous people are 11 times more likely to be in gaol than non-Indigenous. Perhaps your experience of police is not typical?

Your statement: “over-representation in the prison population is due to the fact that they are committing far more crimes”, even if true, doesn’t explain the situation and therefore provides no suggestions for improvement other than the draconian zero tolerance. The question we should ask is: “Why are crimes committed? It might also be helpful to compare the crime types that lead to prison. In WA two-thirds of all prison offenders for motor vehicle or driving offences were Indigenous; nearly half of all female Indigenous prisoners were imprisoned for fine-default. (www.crc.law.uwa.edu.au/facts__and__figures/statistical_report_2004)

You have to wonder whether prisons have revolving doors. Mick Dodson said in 1996: ‘Our young people return from gaol to the very same conditions of daily existence that create the patterns of offending in the first place’. (www.hreoc.gov.au/Social_Justice/sj_reports.html#96)

FrankGol, I am not disagreeing with you, particularly in relation to statistics and what they really show!!

I also agree that the only way to make a difference is to target the cause of the crime -this is especially so if the police are more reluctant to act on indigenous crime anyway. This reluctance may in fact be why driving offences and fine defaults make up such a large part of the prisoners -they are objective and there can be no cry of racism. Either you paid your fine or you didnt. Reluctance is certainly well known in the context of domestic violence and sexual abuse. In recent times many indigenous people have spoken out against the goings-on in various communities. Even where I lived, it was well known that once a girl turned 5, they were fair game, and we certainly were not a remote community (although not coastal either). Would the cops do anything about this? Of course not, their hands were tied because the mission residents would close ranks and refuse to give out any information. How are we supposed to stop this far more serious crime if the communities will not assist?

I still think that its an issue that only generations can fix. I point out that indigenous life expectancy is rising faster than the average life expectancy with the point that it is only time that will fix this. Does this mean we should stop spending the money on it? No, of course not.But we need to recognise that firstly the indigenous population started well behind the eight-ball in terms of life expectancy, and as a result they have been gaining on the general population. Secondly to compare to other indigenous nations is also a fallacy, as most other similar countries (US & Canada for example) have been settled for far longer than Australia, and thus the indigenous population has had more time to catch-up to the general population (read longer access to white-man's medicine).In addition to this, rarely are their indigenous communities as remote as here, also giving better access to health care.

Great cynicism my pigment deficient friend,

Again, the silence of the political parties is deafening.

Why can they ignore the Oxfam efforts...because there is not enough public interests. Has anyone visited some of the blogs after Thorpe and Freeman launched this campaign?

The hatred of the responses was terrible. Again deomstrating that this supposed minority of race hating public are alive and active in any online environment.

Very sad.

I would like to thank you Country Gal for pointing out that because indigenous Australians on the whole are dying younger than should be tolerated that is a good development because their short lives are a few years longer than when they suffered direct persecution 40 years ago. I laughed so hard I nearly suffered a hernia. It reminded me of economists pointing out that the famine in Ethiopia attracted investment.

Leigh , the problem has been that Australian Governments have never really investigated as to why Indigenous Australians for the most part have become disaffected. Australia has never come to terms with why many components of this society are disaffected. Ring highlights this in his sarcasm that he calls “these rosey times”. This describes what we have evolved into - a dysfunctional economy and a marginalist society is taken for granted as experiencing a golden era by the media on the sole basis that it is said so rather than it is so. We have rediscovered the rhetoric of imperialist Britain and the Carter-ist and Reagan-ist era rhetoric’s of the U.S. Governments and media have found talking the talk is easier than walking the walk. Despite the resource boom, many Australians are abandoned, if we don’t act now to be all inclusive in four or more years when this boom is all over we will have deep seated problems to deal with.

Is the country negative? That depends on who you ask, perhaps we can learn from the last rosey era when Australian iconic role models were Allen Bond and Christopher Skase.

Keating complained when he lost the election that he had brought Australians to the light at the end of the tunnel; here we are in that brilliant light. In this brilliant time we can supply services to mining companies in remote areas but we cant supply them to indigenous communities. China is not to far too have a packet of 80 cent packet of plastic clothes pegs imported but a three hour drive from the east coast is to far for life to be properly valued.

A point to consider is come election time all of a sudden this utopia of a nation suddenly finds "Battlers" in sufficient numbers to warrant bribing for votes via the federal budget.

All of a sudden these 'down trodden Australians" which have been a whinging nuisance such as families need real assistance because their problems which have been fake up until the election are suddenly real problems. Marginalised Australians, special needs Australians still get ignored as fragmented groups they do not have the democratic power vote in regime change and so too fragmented to be considered as having valuable lives within Australia.

Who really are the true whingers? Those in need? Those bleeding hearts who get off their backsides to help others. I fear it is the lazy good for nothing apathetic who do nothing but complain about bleeding hearts and the needy, for they are the true blue complainers of this world.

They may support the shock jock economy , make current affairs programs lucrative advertisement spinners , get governments re-elected , they may have the paternalistic power to hold the status quo , force economic and moral inertia but in possible response to me for this post I give you apathetics a pre-emprive in your own lazy whiney way " what - ever !".