Don't be silly - being under the control of Opus Dei - now that really would be frightening!

The NSW Liberals have to wriggle out of the control of the God botherers if they are to have any appeal to the electorate.

Country link to be sold off

Have you noticed how it has been updated No

How many public service jobs to go

People will have to travel by bus higher fares to be expected for country services.

Then we have city link
more public service jobs to go

How many public servants work for NSW rail

no longer to be public servants

10 thousand, 20 thousand,30 thousand jobs then income from those public service jobs.

who are the suckers the NSW public

Labor
job loses
higher transport fees
country scr#wed

www.tapp.org.au

Another balanced piece. What the author is really saying is NSW Libs need to be more like the Fed Libs. This negative campaigns are fine when it's your side winning. If the NSW Libs were not a bunch of god bothers they might have a chance.

Sore loser

"You see, Opposition Leader Peter Debnam didn’t lose on Saturday. Neither did his Liberal Party"

I think you will find that they did lose, not gaining enough seats to form government is a loss to me.

With the Liberal Party in disarray in NSW, joining their QLD mates, the myth of no factions in the Libs is exposed as the lie it has always been.

Jonathon I think you need to get on the phone and lobby for your local member to retain his job looks like your faction is about to be rolled.

Sour grapes! At least NSW Labor is not cutting away at people's rights like the Howard Government. A horrible 11 years of Howard and "spin" (another word for not telling the truth): core and non-core promises (ie what we really promise and the lies we tell); Howard's "never-ever" GST; children overboard; committing an Australian presence in Iraq to Bush and telling the Australian people there had been no decision (the bigger sin than the fabrication about WMD); the oxymoronic Work "Choices" legislation - promoting the myth that ordinary workers can "negotiate" with their employers; a ministerial code that is broken from the time it is laid down until it becomes expedient to implement it on a junior minister.

I think the people of NSW are very wise to reject a liberal party which has been taken over by ultra-conservative, wedge, neo-con interests, and the substitution of principle by expediency.

All the above posts illustrate the point of the article;

The ALP government has done nothing to justify being re-elected, except for not being the liberal party. The campaign was nothing but a series of negative claims, misinformation and lies, partially on both sides, but the ALP claims really got my goat.

Yes the federal libs do the same thing, and no I won't be voting for them

A challenge for all the above posters; give me five POSITIVE reasons why anyone should have voted for the ALP?

I can't think of one.

gw

Debnam's problem was that despite his incessant whining, he offered no real positive alternatives - just self-righteous indignation.
Saying "vote for us, we can't be any worse" didn't cut it on the day.

A change of Government doesn't always mean a change to someone better, just someone different.

NSW doesn't stand for "Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong" anymore and the problem with metropolitan trains and tollways apparently had little impact Statewide.

WorkChoices may or may not have had an impact as well, depending on your political persuasion and degree of self-denial.

As for the "sleaze" campaign, this one was cloned from the Federal anti-Latham campaign and has probably become the new standard. Look what's been happening to Rudd already.

Wot,no mention of Peter Debnam's attack on Bob Debus.

When NSW falls apart, we in Queensland will only follow suit. Having inept liars in the states doesn't mean we should settle fopr the same colour of inept liars in the federal sphere. At least Howard's economic policies have kept both Queensland and NSW solvent, and probably the other labor states as well. Woe betide us if we elect these same inept idiots federally.

If that happens I'll close up shop, retire and I guess I'll just go sailing.

"Socialists" ? The NSW ALP ?? Pull the other one, it sings Hugo Chavez tunes.

Jonathan Ariel resurrects Andrew Peacock's line: We didn't lose, we just didn't get enough votes to win. And this against a tired Labor Government which, he says, "is barren of talent and is bereft of managerial skills."

Does it occur to Ariel that if the ALP is incompetent and talentless, this can only mean that the Conservatives were unspeakable. Yet the brain plays tricks when you want to believe fairy tales. Ariel pleads for Peter Debnam to stay in his job.

The ALP won, says Ariel, only because it used dirty tricks. The Liberals should learn to do that and worse at the next election. He might have mentioned the role model close at hand - his Federal colleagues whose own President has described as 'mean and tricky'.

But Ariel's one-dimensional analysis puts Debnam and Ariel in a isolated position. Here's a sample of other commentators' views on the election.

Brendan Nelson (Sunday program): "In the end it's about the party, the organisation of the party, making sure that we don't have any so-called factional arrangements dominate sensible thinking."

Ross Fitzgerald (The Australian): "Iemma's reign had begun 18 months ago and that was all he was prepared to take responsibility for. His 'more to do' slogan, much derided by commentators, hit the mark.”

Charles Richardson (Crikey.com): “... Peter Debnam...was universally regarded as being not up to the job.”

Glen Milne (The Australian) “…the overwhelming factor contributing to the deathbed resuscitation of the shabbiness that was the NSW Labor Government was the incompetence of Peter Debnam and the state Liberal machine…”

Paul Sheehan (Sydney Morning Herald): “While the NSW election was not a vote about John Howard or his Federal Government, it was an emphatic rejection of the Liberal Party and its robotic state leader, Peter Debnam.”

John Howard was widely reported as denying that the NSW election result had anything to do with his unpopular IR laws, maintaining that the election was about state issues.

Ariel's posting is both partisan and shallow.

Ariel's article is written from the perspective of a true loser.

gw says: "give me five POSITIVE reasons why anyone should have voted for the ALP? I can't think of one."

Here's an offering:

1. The ALP were better organised than the Opposition. (I know that's not saying much, but everything is relative when you vote between two major parties).

2. Maurice Iemma put forward some policies that might benefit people in NSW and his counterpart offered unspecified cuts to necessary services.

3. The ALP was in favour of retaining State IR powers and strengthening workers' rights; the Coalition threatened to transfer State IR responsibility to Howard.

4. The people of NSW are shrewd enough to know which side of politics could be trusted to preserve numbers in teaching, nursing and policing.

5. The ALP made better electoral use of the inept Opposition leader than did the Opposition make of an inept ALP leader.

Yes I am sorry to say the people of NSW have lost. They have acted like losers voting for a failed Labour Government.So they will now reap the consequences.

FrankGol:

1. That's a positive reason to vote independent, not ALP

2. Cuts to unnecessary beaurocracy leaves more money to be spent on teachers, police, nurses (not to mention roads, rail etc). Take a leaf from the book of the big corporations on this one and cut middle management first - they produce little and get paid too much.

3. So we get to continue with a confusing two-tier system. Not that I completely agree with the Workchoices legislation, but the tenet of simplification across the country is a good one.

4. Hmm, not really a positive reason, even if it is true. All you are saying is that you wont vote for the other side because you dont want to risk a cut to these services.

5. Definately not a positive reason!

One of the issues is that by nature, the ALP are not good business managers (whereas the coalition are more likely to be). Ideally for the good health of the country and economy, we need coalition governments that dont have a senate majority, most of the time, with an ALP government every 3-4 elections, for one term at a time. This helps ensure that steady management is applied, with capitalists checked by having to appease the minor parties, and the socialists getting to balance the books every now and then.

But as far as NSW is concerned, we need the likes of Jeff Kennett - yep, everyones going to hurt for a while, but the state will come out of it in better shape overall. Lets not get as run down as Victoria did under the ALP before we decide we need to do something about it.

Thanks Jonathan Ariel. Haven't had a belly laugh like that in years.

After a while though, I calmed down and started to sympathise. Many of us feel the same frustration about long-term Howard.

Oh country gal didnt you know country link is going, so rail expired

try a bus

job losses

higher ticket fares

now thats something labor forgot to tell you

Then after that more public jobs to go with city rail.

That smell it is the smell of decay, an unresponsive conservative party reaction to the 21st loss in state elections.
It did not happen! look how bad the ALP was! but never say or even look at the dreadful Liberal defeat.
The loss of the election that never ever should have been lost is not we are told the fault of conservative rot.
But it is ! this morning in a NSW country town a national party higher up told me Labor only got 40% of the primary vote!
Failing to understand that alone was more than any other party.
How can conservative Australia waltz to wards the impending train wreck that will more than match Lathams and blindly claim it is not true?
And how could they have given a life to Labors new star in NSW?
Yes Morris, hold those words of contempt within weeks he will have stamped his brand on government and even some conservatives will see the lost chances of the past 18 months needed to be taken and it may be another 12 years till such chances come again.
Oh yes that was 21 lost elections in a row, 21 times the voters , most voters bought the ALP product rejected conservatives one
Is that not clear?

Trains, roads, hospitals, water; are there any issues that haven't gone bad for this government? Yet the liberals still can't win. Now, who said that workchoices didn't play a part in this election!

The people of NSW have lost - true. But the people of NSW were going to lose whatever the outcome of the election: the incumbents are demonstrably incompetent, and in the considered opinion of most of the losers, the alternative was worse. The only hope is that with four years to play with, the NSW Government will divert some of its energy from politicking to running the State. Or at least, the trains.

Everyone seems to be complaining about the state of Roads, Hospitals, Trains and Water. Perhaps NSW is ungovernable by any political party. Perhaps the need to get a majority of votes, from the public or within the factions, is inimical to good goernment.

Someone called for a Jeff Kennett style of leader. How about a Mussolini?

Now is the time of opportunity for the Liberal Party. Be an effective opposition. Come up with a coherent set of policies to manage the chaos. True the media won't want to hear anything from the opposition for the next three years. But nonetheless, come up with sensible criticism and good policies that Labor will want to pinch. Opposition is an honorable, potentially constructive, and ultimately a vote winning activity.

Fencepost.

In Sydney, all the Labor seats occupy the west and south west of the city. These areas generally have the worst public transport services, the worst health services – yet more health problems, the worst schools, the most ugly and depressing streetscapes, and the most crime and violence. On top of that NSW is the sickest economy in the country, with the highest level of bankruptcies and the greatest proportion of people with mortgages in arrears. It’s no surprise really, when you consider the sort of mentality that a politician who grew up in these areas would possess. What they lack in brains, they gain in street smart gutter tactics. Add to that a public which laps up rubbish like Big Brother, yaps away on mobiles about nothing half the time and boozes in pubs the other half, you can make them believe any nonsense - like false fears about Workchoices and the opposition leader’s policies and ability.

Yes the majority have lost to these devious right wing scoundrels. For instance,the Labor Party has unremittingly sabotaged the railways hoping for collapse so they can hand it over (privatisation)to the financiers for their immense profiteering and vile greed. Then on last Saturdays election some grandiloquent promises about fixing up the railways. There will be some 'urgent window dressing' applied, a 'lick of paint and polish' followed up by a quick fix solution of train cancellations so that fewer trains will be late. Vital maintenance too will be cut to save money. The writer I am sure, knows there are no political differences between labor and liberal unless he has political blindness, naive or politically deceitful. Billionaires Murdoch and Fairfax and the nerve centers of capitalism the banks, clearly understand Labor is a far more useful tool, a better bet, to carry through the next round of attacks in order to increase their wealth. The problem for the financiers with the liberals is this growing hatred. The fact is that the 'economic substance' of capitalist exploitation will in no way be affected - either would gladly attempt to bring in the new industrial relations (IR) laws. Both Labor and Liberal are bosses parties staffed by a grasping layer of careerists with their snouts firmly on the money trail, they are right wing agents of the capitalists. The writer reviles but what is discernible from his writings, is he has the same right wing politics. He attacks the election result from the right. Both parties are dedicated, wedded or welded to economic nationalism, anchored to the nation state in a thousand ways. Both Labor and Liberal are absolutely hostile to workers unifying their struggles internationally. Why? Because workers would get out of their control, realize they are two thousand millions strong, grasp that their real strength is in uniting more deeply and widely; smash their chains. The effect would be electric, political power would be on the agenda and society run under the democratic control of workers.

Geeat stuff, johncee. I agree with all of it, especially the stuff about trains :)

Where can I get some of whatever it is that you're smoking?

Morris Iemma and his Bonobo Party are a lot more than incompetent.Morris does not have the guts to do what his Treasurer Michael Coster said needed doing 12mths ago,ie drastically reduce the bureaucracy and the number of departments and hopefully the culture of waste,chaos and inefficiency.

Another four years will see this lot become totally corrupt.They don't give a stuff now and the electorate have rewarded the most inept Govt in living memory.The two companies competing for the desalination plant contract have donated large amounts to Labor.I heard it totalled $1 million.Now this is an extremely expensive project that will only supply 7% of Sydney's water.There are far cheaper options.I smell a dirty rat.

Will Queensland and Western Aust be taking economic refugees from NSW and do Labor voters have to processed on Chistmas Island to check their IQ.

PS Bonobos are relatives of Chimps who resolve conflicts and problems by having sex with anything that they can touch.

Jonathan Ariel writes that the NSW premier “has a deputy who was a school teacher. God help us.” What a despicable comment! It is not unusual for teachers to be treated with undeserved contempt, but this is an extraordinary addition to the usual baseless abuse of the selfless, kind and decent people who give their working lives to helping children and thus to building the future of our nation. Given the skills required, experience in teaching provides an excellent grounding for anyone who wants to go into management, administration, communication or politics. Teachers work long hours, juggle diverse demands, exercise judicious authority, communicate with large numbers of very individual people all at once, sift copious amounts of information, detect jargon a mile off, withstand daily abuse and act with diligence and commitment to the students they teach. In giving NSW a deputy premier who was a teacher, God has already helped out a lot. The only things more you could ask of him would be to give Jonathan Ariel a better appreciation of the depths of commitment of teachers and to give NSW premier who had been a teacher.

Poor poor pouty little Johnny. This is his latetest whinge.

What a patronising sour graped attitude you have. It is called democracy and the people have decided. Your opinion is not superior to the opinions of 6 or so million people. Spare us from your doom and gloom. Public Service? Why don't you get a real job, like school teaching?

Now move on and get a life.

We're too willing to speculate about what went wrong without really caring to face the terrible facts. We're a conservative people, frightened when a leaf drops off a tree in autumn. Our federation document is a car we ordered to be built from various make parts supplied from many car factories. It hardly went when it was delivered, producing shoddy motoring for decades. Never a grease and oil change, no service or maintenance. If we wanted to add water to the radiator, we'd get howled down with a big NO! That's the way we treat our politics, just as we treat our religion and pretty well most things. We can't stomach change, and least of all change that requires both brains and guts. Our political system is stuffed. Did we really expect a better election than we got? The best we can hope for is what we got. If it isn't good enough, start supporting new political faces who are all for making necessary changes and maintaining the new car when delivered. The Republican Party of Australia seeks to initiate a two-tier system, replacing state and local government with a single regional system responsible to Canberra uphill, and Canberra responsible to the people on the return trip.
The goal is to achieve things our present system precludes: efficiency and cost effectiveness of government; politicians answerable directly to their voters, not a political party; democracy, not plutocracy; representation, not authoritarianism; sovereignty of the people respected, not held in contempt; Australians as a nation, not a hodge-podge of clapped out colonies masquerading as states. We'll all get a chance to see if we want that sort of thing come the federal election. At that time, we'll see whether the whole nation is willing to compromise itself for the status quo, as NSW voters did.

Just a few of us need to stop and remember voters have about the same IQ as us, they did not get conned they did think it out and they voted.
They considered both sides and said no yet again to the tainted right of conservative Australia.
However look closely the impending removal of John Howard's hand picked failure, it will bring true Liberal leadership to the party and a re birth of Liberalism.
Some tainted by a press that never let truth get in the way of manufactured news want more.
More of everything but not the taxes it would take to fund it.
Now johncee 1945 Hard as it may be to believe I met a bloke who thinks like you once, that makes two of you in 61 years, why don't you get together and form a party?
Again do not devalue voters who think different than you it may just be you who is wrong.
Want to build a party? watch Morris do just that next week.
21 elections 21 lost and some still blame the voters?
Laughter is my only answer! gee it feels good too.

Just goes to show how the people like Belly just don't have a clue.If the Liberal Party performed like Iemma's Govt I would vote in a credible Labor one.

Belly will back trash no matter how much the stench reeks in his abode.Sadly our Govts do reflect a fair percentage of our pop.

Its not actually been much of Labor vs Liberal, so much as Dumb and Dumber. If the Opposition had looked credible, it would have waltzed in at the election, based on the performance of the Govt. But they look like just as big a bunch of drongo's, in which case its usually best to stick with the devil you know, unfortunately. The same story goes federally. If Rudd can show some genuine and beneficial policies, then we might get a change (which incidentally despite being a conservative voter, I dont think is a bad idea). If not, then I'll bet that we get Johnny back. If we do, I hope he loses his senate majority.

Its interesting times.

Ajay in your post you highlight the views I have posted here you both undervalue my vote and over value your own.
Is it not clear that rubbishing the way I vote is no answer?
I have indeed voted against the ALP while a member of that party, it was my considered opinion the conservatives lie just as much as any party during the election.
That the major Medea was shameful in its one sided biased miss use of its power.
That the Howard hand picked leader of the conservatives had worse policy's than Labor.
That his team was not worth risking.
And that while so very many in the Labor party even front bencher's did not deserve to be reelected our leader had the best chance of turning the state around.
After thinking it out in detail I voted for the ALP , so too did most in NSW.
Is conservative NSW to get behind its new leader and form policy's that can be sold to voters? or are they like Ajay going to claim they never lost it was just idiots like me who did not think straight?
In my presently held and considered view workchoices will not let me or Australia support the small gentle man who thrives on lies in the up coming federal election Ajay may care to prepare his defense for another loss now.

I voted (after the greens) for labor because I am frightened by the fundamentalist religious right who seem to have taken over the State Liberal Party.
These people want to run my life according to a 2,000 year old story/potted-history book.

I am also very annoyed at Federal liberals work-place-laws and extremely cranky that my GST taxes are being used to stoke the fires of the Qld and WA economies. We (NSW)must be about 2 Billion down by now.

The Feds say they are good economic managers, crap.
What sense is there in stimulating economies (WA Qld) already on the boil? The Reserve Bank just has to put up interest rates further punish those in NSW and other states.If the money was going to Vic tas and SA and NT I would not care as much.

As one wit said, he wouldn't mind all NSW money going to Qld if they would send us a little card and photo occasionally telling us how they were going at school, building the village pump, etc

I don't believe the liberals have any compassion given their treatment of David Hicks and refugees. They do not respect the rule of law habeas corpus and civil rights. They are a glorified fund-raising, influence-peddling, social club.

I don't see the need for a massive "Future Fund" (weasel words)for politicians and Public servants pensions. What is the Commonwealth Super Fund for?
We are being overtaxed and our money is being miss-spent. I would quite happily vote for a "Future Fund" for education, health(inc dental), infrastructure, or welfare.

If Debnam could have told me that he would get our 500mil+ some (PA) back from Howard I may have voted for him. That might have been honest at least.

We are fortunate that we have a few real "liberals" on the back bench in Canberra. I pray for their health

Rudd's idea is to use a part of the future fund now to take us into the future.
Luddites who are unable to even start to understand his intent and the outcomes that benefit Australia are hurting that future.
Howard is no true believer in climate change and is a dangerous man to be in charge at present.
I want to except the greens had the right to vote as they wished, conservatives do not share that view but ask this question.
While greens preferences leaked to Labor at a rate of 1 in 3 in those seats that did not see them directed by the party.
What do you consider was the intent in seats that may yet fall to liberals?
Why the change in marginal seats?
In the federal election Howard will not win, a preference deal like that could assist him.
Yes ok the Luddites and rusted on conservatives will be upset by this but the non conservatives must defeat this dreadful government.

NSW's GST revenue slice is down not because of the Federal Govt, but because our idiotic Labor state govt refuses to remove state taxes that the GST was supposed to replace. The likes of Stamp Duty. So excess GST revenue gleaned from the long-suffering NSW taxpayers is being shifted to those States (like QLD) that DID do what they were supposed to when GST was introduced.

The Future Fund is designed to cover future super payments to public servants because unlike most employees, public servants super isnt actually paid into super funds. So the Future Fund is in effect a giant super fund. The changes to superannuation from 1/7/07 where most people will able able to access tax-free super once they turn 60, doesnt and wont apply to public servants who rely on unfunded super schemes, as their super is not in a normal "taxed" super environment. So they will still need to pay tax on any payments that they get. This is a great disadvantage to them compared to other retirees.

Chris C was outraged when someone disparaged the deputy premier's background as "only a teacher". I heartily support his umbrage. Many teachers have skills that would earn bigger incomes if they were employed commercially. But my sadness is intensified by the fact that the slight on teachers was incidental rather than a deliberate attack on the teaching profession. Incidental, offhand remarks often reveal deeply entrenched attitudes. Teaching is a vital profession. Its image is in need of rehabilitation. Maybe a part of the necessary Liberal rejuvenation in opposition is to propose genuine encouragement of the teaching profession rather than rubbishing it.

Country Gal

The superannuation of commonwealth public servants cannot be compared to the super introduced by the Hawke Govt.

Depending on what commonwealth scheme you are in you can get between 50-75% of your salary when you retire for life.

Given that the future fund now has $50 billion and that it was only set up on May 5, 2006 its target of $120 billion will be met in the next two years (as confirmed by Nick Minchin in senate estimates).

So the future fund will make its required $7 billion a year, 11 years before Costello says it will need to be used.

So the question I ask is why are they using tax payers money for this sham when, as we all know, infrastructure needs are crying out for funds.

Of course it is politics, if the Govt. admits it is rolling in cash then Labor could legitimately use these funds for its own policies.

Did our government ever ask the public if they agreed to $50 BILLION not being spent on needed infrastructure, hospitals, schools etc. etc.

To make it more relevant in the past year the Govt. has put $2,500 into the Future Fund for every man woman and child in Australia.

If you are a couple with two kids, can you think of something better to spend $10,000 on. Remember its your money.

To Chris C

Just to clarify my comment on teachers.

It was not an attack on the most useful profession that it is. I merely wanted to indicate that the skills needed to manage a multi billion dollar economy are somewhat different from those needed to teach a class of well behaved or badly behaved students.

To fdixit

Mea culpa. Mr Debnam's attack on Debus was inexcusable in every sense of the word