Logic

It is illogical to blame the Palestinian refugees for the actions of other Arab countries. That is the consequence of your statement. That's unfair. It's like saying the world or others should atone for the attrocities committed in Nazi Germany.

Your comment re Aid to, your generalised and non specific, Palestinians is racist.

It would be more appropriate to say some of the aid given by the west to assist Palestinians in camps and in the occupied territory, who haven't had the right to govern themselves for much of the past 40 years, has sometimes been misspent by some Palestinians and some has been misappropriated by some palestinians.

To characterise all Palestinians as you have as spendthrift and fraudlent is in this case a generalised racist attack on Palestinians.

Why don't you address your inbred prejudice before you open your mouth and spread this type of generalised derogratory hatred.

Dear keith
I'm so glad that you disagree so vehemently with Mohammad prophet of Islam.

What you should do, is look 'closely' at the little connections I usually make between such approaches and the growth of Islam.

I esPECially make that connection in regard to the treatment of Jews, and how they in turn are expected to treat Muslims.

One thing you don't seem to give sufficient weight to in all this, is that the political/religious underpinning of the Palestinian Muslims is EXACTLY the points I raised and it is how Mohammad, prophet of Islam treated Jews and other conquered peoples, but primarily it was Jews who suffered loss, humiliation and death at his hands.

-Males killed
-Females and children enslaved.

The Banu Qurayza and Khaybar are just 2 examples.

So, the Palestnians are often whining about history etc, and their 'claim' to the land. Well, I say use the same approach to them, as they have in their minds for the Jews. You doubt they have this approach in mind for the Jews ?

One thing..and one thing alone (though there are many) should open blind eyes about this, and that is the name of the Hezbollah Missile named KHAYBAR II ... now.. I wonder why in the heck they would suddenly come up with such an ancient name ? *scratches head*....OHHH.. I know.. because the want to do the same thing as Mohammad did to the Jews at Khaybar.

Now Keith, if I was a Jew in Israel, I would be utterly galvanized by that missile name, it would convince me beyond any shadow of a doubt that my survival depends on the actual removal of the threat.
....and we haven't even mentioned the Hamas Charter.

I've been more generous than Mohammad. I simply called for the Palestinians in the camps to be dispersed and removed and compensated. Mohammad would kill them without mercy.
Remember..they are
1/ Muslims.
2/ They look to Mohammad's example.
3/ Lepoards don't change their spots

Keith

In no way did I blame the Palestinian refugees for the actions of other Arab countries. That was a reply to your earlier comments, as I said you don't read things properly.

When I pointed out that aid to the Palestinians was being wasted you accused me of racism. When you criticize Israel of stealing land that to you is apparently not racist. Why is it racist to accuse a Palestinian group of one thing but not racist if you accuse the Israelis of something? Accusations of racism are a stock in trade for the anti Israel brigade. Their other dirty trick is to accuse anyone who criticizes Israel's enemies of shouting anti-antisemitism. It just won't wash with me.

Nor did I accuse all Palestinians of anything. Another piece of trickery, stop it, by doing this you playing the fool, which I know you are not.

You blame Palestinian misuse of funds on their lacking “the right to govern themselves for much of the past 40 years”. The Jews lacked this right for over 2000 years!

I no more characterised all Palestinians as spendthrift and fraudulent than you characterized all Israelis as land thieves.

Re prejudice I think the main problem may well be with yourself.

Steve: “Israel says that the solution to the Palestinian refugee problem must be found in a Palestinian state and/or the host countries...”

Keith: “Fair enough Steve”

Indeed, but this contradicts the Arab interpretation of Resolution 193 -- the Arab League plan’s solution to the refugee problem. Now maybe you understand that not everyone sees the Arab League plan as a just solution.

Keith: “but your Israel seems to want to extend it's borders somewhat into Palestinian territory. And you've claimed you don't support that.”

I don’t know exactly what you mean, so I can’t say if Israel wants to do this, or whether I support it. If you mean minor border adjustments and territorial exchanges in the framework of a peace treaty, so that for example Israel will maintain sovereignty in Jerusalem’s Jewish neighborhoods, I support it.

Keith: “And now we see you starting to show signs of supporting David Boaz' ethnic cleansing resettlements.”

I have no idea what you are talking about. You must have misunderstood, because I do not support ethnic cleansing.

Keith: “...I tend to agree that the refugees need not return to their former family homes”

The Arab interpretation of Resolution 193 disagrees with you. You have a serious disagreement with the Arab League plan, just as I do.

Keith: “some acknowledgement of the cause of their predicament, as well as recompense is vital.”

Arabs and Israelis tend to disagree about the cause of their predicament, but perhaps some agreed formula acknowledging suffering on both sides could be negotiated. A generous financial package as compensation for land left behind in 1948 and to help resettle refugees in the new State of Palestine are part of all peace proposals.

Keith: “Sure the same should apply to Israeli refugees from Arab countries. However in the later case any compensation should include an estimation of any benefit they have received in the way of land grants etc from any former Israeli Arab assets.”

Discounting of compensation could work both ways, since Palestinians were sometimes settled in homes left behind by Jews fleeing Damascus, Baghdad, Hebron, etc.

Bushbred,

1) You don’t know if Israel has “atomic artillery”.

2) What makes you think that Israel’s alleged nuclear weapons are illegal?

3) It isn’t clear what you mean about “underground bunkers”.

4) It makes no sense to punish Israel for “allowing the Americans to sell them” anything. If the US broke some law, punish the US.

5) What should be done about the fact that Australia allowed the Americans to sell them strike bombers?

Logic

The difference is the Israeli government officially sanctions and promotes the sale and settlement of stolen lands to Jewish Israelis only. That I criticise and it's legitimate not racist.

When you refered to Palestinians it was as a group. You specified no individuals nor any body representing them. You labelled all Palestinians as spendthrift and fraudulent. That's racism.

This is the first I've heard the phrase anti anti-semitism.
I blame the Israeli government for the occupation that has suppressed the Palestinians for 40 years for all sorts of dysfunction within Palestinian society.

We Australians don't use our weapons to attack our neighbour, to occupy and steal their land or suppress them. I wouldn't be a proud Australian if we did and I'd do my utmost to prevent such barbarism.

Steve

The indications are the Arab league and member nations are prepared to negotiate on this point of resettlement and right of return.

Take a look at the proposals at Camp David from Barak and tell me that the claims by Israel are only 'minor border adjustments and territorial exchanges' and also that Israel doesn't try to claim soverignity over the illegal settlemments .

I think we'd have to share a wry laugh or two if you do...

David Boaz started out his ethnic cleansing campaign with the innocuouus suggestion the Palestinians should be found places for resettlement in other Arab countries. He expanded it to include the resettlement of all Palestinians with talk of camps and forced deportations etc... I was having a dry little 'dig'. Sorry to offend. I have greater respect for you than that.

I think the world has come to a greater awareness of the cause of the Palestinian and indeed the Israeli predicament. We are all too aware of where this could lead with a nuclear armed Iran.

I'd agree with a discounting both ways and it wouldn't be to difficult to set up a system to check claims. It should only apply to Jewish refugees in Israel and Palestinian refugees in other countries.

Bushbred: You are welcome to drop me a line. kennelly@st.net.au