It should not be forgotten that Cheney’s Bridge ushers (the Howard Government) have been involved in the downplaying of torture earlier than the reports about Hicks.

The Age, February 14, 2005 http://www.theage.com.au/news/Iraq/Minister-warned-on-Iraqi-torture/2005/02/13/1108229855434.html reminds us:

"Australians have been involved in interrogating Iraqi prisoners at a Baghdad jail where prisoners were abused, a senior [Australian] intelligence official has claimed.

The allegations, made by Australian weapons inspector Rod Barton, contradict statements Defence Minister Robert Hill made to Parliament.

Mr Barton said he interrogated Iraqi scientists in early 2004 at Camp Cropper, a jail where about 100 "high value" prisoners were held.

"Someone was brought to me in an orange jumpsuit with a guard with a gun standing behind him," Mr Barton has told the ABC's Four Corners for a report that will screen tonight.

"Of course I didn't pull any fingernails out . . . but I think it's misleading to say there were no Australians involved (in interrogation). I was involved."

Mr Barton said he had since learnt other Australians were involved in interrogations.

...Mr Barton said he warned a senior Defence Department official, Myra Rowling, that prisoners were being abused at Camp Cropper, but was ignored.

"No one asked me any more questions about prisoner abuse whatsoever and I gather later that nothing was done about it. Nothing was followed up."

...Mr Barton recommended that Australians no longer be involved in interrogating prisoners at Camp Cropper but says he was ignored.

When he complained to the Defence Department that Senator Hill's statement to Parliament was misleading, he was told his work was considered "interviews", not interrogation.

"I believe it was interrogation. The Iraqis regarded it as interrogation. The Americans I think regarded it as interrogation," he said.

The current OLO article from Dr Macnab about Mr Otterman's book first appeared to be another lefty denunciation of the good ol CIA but there seems to be enough facts and feel for the subject to back up the judgements made.

Naturally the cult of silence in Australian defence and intelligence circles, about American torture (for revenge) practices, largely continues.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

A MATTER OF TENSE

" 'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.'” - article

-- We have not learned our lesson and HAVE repeated history.

Torture should be one of those black and white things that Liberal societies can clearly use to differentiate themselves from their enemies.
Aside from the clear moral grounds, there is the fact that torture doesn't work. It simply gives you what you want to hear, which sadly, seems to be regarded as just as useful in some quarters.

When people express justified disgust at torture practices, they're all too often branded as whacko, civil rights lefties, but come on - this is torture we're talking about here. If we can't at least agree that this isn't acceptable, we must be living in entirely different societies.

It is a terrible indictment on our society, that our chief legal officer, attorney general Phillip Ruddock, is so soft on the torture issue.
He's stated openly that sleep deprivation doesn't count as torture, and he's been pretty damn soft on other heinous interrogation methods.

Even if we are fighting a war, we never stooped this low in the past. We held out against the Japanese, and the Nazi menace without ditching the ideals we hold so close.

How anyone can defend this is beyond me.

I do not believe thumbscrews; racks etc are in use in Cuba where the detainees are held. The detainees are so revved up on their faith and wanting to be martyred that it would not take much sensory deprivation to destabilise them.

Has anyone noticed most plots are intercepted before they get off the ground? The only successful plots are those hatched by small terrorist cells isolated from the main body. (Remember the plot to bring down some nine aircraft over the Atlantic). We are fortunate that our intelligence agencies are able to stay in front of most plots. There will be some groans and recrimination when the next successful plot is pulled off.

Keep up the good work a bit of sleep deprivation, screaming and chanting fellow inmates, cold wet nights interspersed with acts of kindness is not going to hurt anyone. It will certainly do them less harm than cooking themselves with chemical cocktails in their search for martyrdom.

Sille, I take it your nom-de-plume was a conscious and inspired choice?.

You say: "Keep up the good work a bit of sleep deprivation, screaming and chanting fellow inmates, cold wet nights interspersed with acts of kindness is not going to hurt anyone."

I also take it you would be quite happy to undergo that bracing experience - or allow your children to be subject to it - when the revolution comes?

I'm curious on one qestion: does it matter who the torturers are - or is it only OK when it's the 'goodies' inflicting the pain?

Interesting that those who don't normally believe in absolutes are absolutely sure that all torture should be banned. The main problem in the West is that many don't have any confidence in the Court systems. Even though most know that David Hicks trained with terroist some clever lawyer is likely to get him off. I am sure if the Court system was not so stacked in favour of the crims then people would be more inclined to speak out about torture!