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The Forum > Article Comments > There is a case for staying the course in Iraq > Comments

There is a case for staying the course in Iraq : Comments

By Leslie Cannold, published 22/2/2007

The pottery store rule of causal obligation: you break it, you own it. The least we can do is fix up the mess in Iraq - sans dictator of course.

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Some people think that things just happen by themselves, others feel that some things are meant to happen in a certain way.

Here are some Iraq - Vietnam comparisons that most people overlook –

The US armed Saddam so could fight Iran on its behalf. They armed Ho Chi Minh to help him overthrow the French.

Both countries later used those same weapons against the USA.

Vietnam was simply a war against evil. Iraq is represented to the world in the same simplistic way.

They believed that the Domino Theory would spread Communism throughout South East Asia. They believe (or say they do) the same discredited theory will now spread Democracy throughout the Middle East.

The Iraq war has a firm basis in oil. Under the cover of the Vietnam War, bombs were dropped off the coast to assist in the seismic mapping of Vietnam’s undersea oil and gas reserves that would later be exploited by private US corporations. The survey ships finished and left the same day as the last helicopter flew out of Saigon.

This mapping could not be done while Vietnam was a French colony and is one of the many reasons for the current friction between France and the USA.

Things are not always the way they seem are they?
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 22 February 2007 10:28:44 PM
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nothing like ye old conspiracy theory, to give us all the wobbles.
Posted by tennyson's_one_far-off_divine_event, Thursday, 22 February 2007 10:42:05 PM
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Wobbles

"The US armed Saddam so could fight Iran on its behalf. They armed Ho Chi Minh to help him overthrow the French."

A slight edit. The US Office of Stratetefic Services (OSS), precursor to the CIA, armed Ho Chi Minh TO FIGHT THE JAPANESE in 1944/45.

After WWII most of the Vietnamese Communists (Viet Minh) weapons were either:
- dug up from their pre 1941 war against the French;
- "liberated" from the Japanese 1941-45; and
- "liberated" from the French 1946 onwards

The US made the mistake after the WWII of heavilly arming the French (eg the Douglas Skyraider "Wog Buster") and transporting French troops into battle rather than permitting the Vietnamese to fight it out and have their own country back.

Parallels with Iraq today?

Definitely.

US Billions $ spent and tens of hundreds of thousands dead?

History repeats itself.

For Oil this time rather than other lost markets or scary Commies.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 22 February 2007 11:05:38 PM
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The only similarities between Iraq and Vietnam is that in both cases we have had smarmy, left of centre, former bureaucrats as opposition leader who have sought to differntiate themselves by making simplistic political capital out of a very complex situation.

There was no endless lines of voters in Hanoi, braving terrorist attacks to vote in a general election. The reason domino theory ceased after 1975 was because the US and Australia made it clear to the Gang of four and the politbureau that the cost of expansion through armed struggle was very high.

Yet we have deluded bozos who seriously think that the ordinary Iraqi feels more threatened by occupying troops than by bathist thugs. Get real.

The nations who were most opposed to the partitioning of Iraq on ethnic grounds were Turkey, Iran and Syria. None of whom have made any effort to assist in either peacemaking or reconstruction. The only reason partition was left off the options table was because the US needed Turkish bases to support the invasion. That is no longer the case.

More importantly, the safest, most prosperous and well governed part of Iraq is the Kurdish region which has been self governing since the first Gulf War in 1990. Independent autonomy works. And there are, in fact, as many Kurds (20 million all up) in the region as there are Iraqis. So why are we trying to maintain a single entity with three distinct communities while actively discouraging a single community of the same size.

We are failing in Iraq because we gave Turkey a veto over a successful outcome. And they have given nothing in return.
Posted by Perseus, Friday, 23 February 2007 10:28:43 AM
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Plantagenet,

You're typically correct about the war with the Japanese but my info suggests that after WW2, Laurence Rockefeller (then assistant to MacArthur) “gave” Ho Chi Minh an extensive supply of weapons (WW2 pre-invasion surplus being held at Okinawa) specifically to help him drive out the French.

By the time they finally beat the French, Ho had already reneged on any deals that may have been made because by then he knew about the oil fields and what the US motives really were. Unfortunately, so did the French.

By the way, I like your site.
Posted by wobbles, Friday, 23 February 2007 12:22:15 PM
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Plantagenet, you are right, Mr Powers, about Turkey. They never did want the Kurds to have autonomy or democracy. They had their own selfish agenda. So does Iran, and dare I say, Kuwait.

If Kurdistan is recognised as well as Iraq as seperate, that sounds like a bold, if not daring move. Maybe the EU could tell Turkey to "heal" if they really want to join the EU.

Then its up to the bathists and the shiite ones. The shiites outnumber the bathists, and the bathists are mainly around Bagdad. The British assure up that this area seems to be under control. Maybe this should be New Persia. The rest, well, the shiites will be in a mess for a while.

I dunno, anything is better then just hanging in there making them nervous.

Like the web site too Pete, quite shagadellic.

As to Dr Evil in Sydney with his finger in his mouth with mini me, well, if we keep Mr Bigglesworth happy, Dr Evil is happy. For now.

I must set up my own website one day. I wonder if anyone would bother to look at it. hmmm.
Posted by saintfletcher, Friday, 23 February 2007 12:53:17 PM
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