I agree with Sille, leigh etc.

The thing is with Romany's story, and Donnie's concerns, is that all this can happen anyway.

Think the government can't track you?
Try driving licence, medicare card, credit cards, bank cards, library cards etc.

Think your data is safe?
Identity theft is rampant across all forms of identification. The more forms of identification there are, the more opportunity there is to get your hands on it. If you were really that bothered you would never throw away a reciept or bill, only ever pay with cash, and basically not use a computer in case it got compromised.

Being victimised for being in a minority group or political opposition to the government?
So this can't happen now, but would if there was an ID card? Get real. The government doesn't need an ID card to know if you are a member of the ALP, or a communist or whatever.

Lets face it, the people who have most to fear are the people who have a vested interest in NOT being tracked by the government.

If the card reduces benefit fraud, or reduces illegal immigration, or maybe makes it easier for me to prove I am who I say i am, then it can only be a good thing.

This is the future. Its going to happen. If the government wants to do something bad to you, they don't need an ID card.

In terms of security I'm interested to see what the government can come up with. I would imagine they have got people who know a bit more about security than you or me working on this.

gw

"UNLESS YOU ARE INVOLVED IN SOME SORT OF SCAM OR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY YOU HAVE NOTHING FEAR FROM AN ID CARD."

"only the guilty need fear ID cards"

"the people who have most to fear are the people who have a vested interest in NOT being tracked by the government."

Polly want a cracker?

gw, you have a point, the access card just puts all the eggs in one basket and makes it much much easier to "poach".

The issue here is not really about the card itself but really about whether giving the government more control and ability to monitor our lives is going to infringe on or improve our rights and liberties. If we had a government that was totally trustworthy and there was no way the card system would be abused, i probably wouldn't have a problem with the Big Brother mottos echoed by Sille, Leigh and gw. But unfortunately i am quite disillusioned and very wary of our elected representatives and do not believe they are that trustworthy. Do you?

Sorry, human nature is fallen and I do not trust the Government - any government.

We have had it so well we fail to heed warnings from people like Romany. I knew an elderly man who had been in the dutch underground during WW2. He was a wonderful man with a great family, but a bit rough around the edges, too. When gun control registration came in 10 years ago or so, do you think he would register his guns? No way.

"Why not" you may ask? Because he has seen it before and didn't like where it ended up.

Romany and others have seen it before. We should learn from them and not forget man's inclination to use and abuse.

Freedom is costly. Are Australia's citizens prepared to pay the cost?

I would very much like to hear the opposition leaders view as to whether he also agrees with the ID card idea or otherwise.

Nope. Still not persuaded that getting rid of existing forms of identification and centralising into one is in any way taking your freedom away.

I don't trust governments particularly, but I fail to see how not an having an ID card makes it any less likely they would do something bad to you if they really wanted.

Rather than say 'no card', how about we insist on legal safeguards, transparency and security. We have passports, driving licences, medicare cards.

What difference does one more Card make, if it reduces crime, illegal immigration and fraud?

Lets look at some countries that do have national ID cards; Germany, France, Belgium, Greece, Luxembourg, Portugal and Spain.

Not really hotbeds of discrimination are they?

gw

i like the way bronwyn bishop has applied her 'nazi test' to this card and it failed because it would have made hitlers job easier. its probably the only sensible thing i've ever heard uttered from her.

i think most people would be rather alarmed to know what 'notes' the government have on people already, and this is completely seperate from anything ASIO might have. an elected member has for the majority of people in his/her electorate, notes about this person is like, which was they are more likely to vote, things they have been involved in (signed petitions, letters written etc) - and there is minimal security for access to these files.

there are many people exercising their democratic right by protesting against the behaviour of this completely untrustworthy and increasingly authoritarian government that seems so hell bent on removing our rights, curtailing our freedoms and lowering our levels of privacy - how long before we see more 'peace activists' like scott parken locked up as 'security threats' with no access to the actual charges against them? he hadnt done anything wrong either and was never charged with anything, but it didnt stop him being locked up and deported (at his own expense too).

is anyone actually so naive to believe that things couldnt get a lot worse from what they are already??