The author seems to be in the right ball-park.
The Vatican seems to be making a re-run of seventh-century religious thinking: "There is but one God, and (Jesus Christ) is his prophet!"
No room for equal-rights for people with differing philosophies.
It presents more fertiliser for the breeding grounds of disputation and wars across the world's social boundaries.
Is this an indicator of a great intellectual, a great humanitarian?

Well what the old papa did is a form of clever debate. If you
think something, quote whoever said something similar.
You can then simply blame the other guy, if the sh-t hits
the fan. But the point you are trying to get across is
still made. The Catholic Church has been practising this
stuff for a couple of thousand years now. No wonder they
are such skilled political lobbyists, despite their church
pews being less and less sat on by the believers.

pope whats' his name is deluded in his claim that the jesus christianity STORY is the only true "religion".
It just aint so.
He also conveniently forgets that christianity has been and still is an integral part of the western imperial project ever since the "conversion" of Constantine.
This imperial project is still very much alive. In fact I would say it is approaching a state of closure with all other possibilities for authentic cultural expression having been ground to rubble.

See 1. www.coteda.com/fundamentals/index.html

I would also say that the recent installment of the said chap was an exercise in imperial triumphalism. All the benighted ghouls that pass for our world leaders were in attendance. And all the international money men were there too.
The "church" is entirely and only a worldly power.
It is also the worlds largest "private" property owner.
Why/how does it maintain the "right" to interfere in world politics?
Why is the Vatican afforded world diplomatic status?
By contrast "jesus" was reported to have kicked the money lenders out of the temple.
Would "jesus" have been invited to such a celebration of worldly power?
Would "jesus" be seen any where near such a groteque display of worldly power?

This item which is a talk discusses the delusion of anyone who claims that their "religion" possesses the only "truth". It also points out that True Religion is only and entirely a process.

2. www.adidam.org/flash/truthandreligion/index.html

This essay provides a critique of the deadly pretenses of the said chap and all his fellow chaps in dresses and funny hats.

3. www.beezone.com/AdiDa/jesusandme.html

This collection of essays provides a critique of how the "church" came to worldly power by dumbing down the radical Spiritual Teaching of Jesus.

4. www.dabase.net/proofch6.ht

Well submitted *HoHum*
As an Australian occassional Chistian I currently reside in Islamic Indonesia, where my wife is Muslim & I am sponsored by the family Cleric. *JC* is a favourite prophet along with *Mahommed* and we all just get along fine.

The Catholics are a great dissapointment to me with their divisive preaching and associations with political characters of ill repute.

For example, now that howard et al have been advised by emminent psychiatrists that the consequences of interning children in the desert camps is brain disease for some, to continue to do so, in my view, constitutes the "knowing & deliberate infliction of mental harm."

For those of U not familiar with the "Genocide Convention Act" U ought know that there is more to genocide than barbecuing & gassing the *Disabled, Gays & Jews* The deliberate infliction of mental harm is also a breach.

The catholics should b ashamed of themselves for not speaking out and whats more, colluding with howard et al for political gain & influence in the education sector, amongst other areas, in this modern day perverted "Herrodian" impulse.

But then, is it any surprise that some of howard's mob delude themselves that they are Catholic? Plenty of alleged child abuse and cover up there amongst the nefarious infiltrators.

I want to use HoHum's last phrase as a launch pad for this post.

The "dumbing down" of Jesus radical spiritual teaching".. exactly.

Post Constantine, it was fashionable to be Christian, because land was granted by the State to the Church for ecclesiastical purposes.

"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23etc)

Yes, I cannot see much connection between Jesus and men in dresses with funny hats, in huge cathedrals.

But lets be clear about something, and I mean clear.
The same person who spoke the above, also said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"
So, on the issue of 'Christianity the only true religion'?.. HoHum can take that up with the Lord when he meets Him.

FAMOUS LAST WORDS.
Sadaam Hussein "There is no God but God and Mohammed is his messenger"

Mohammed of Islam.

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 660:
Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas:

On his death-bed Allah's Apostle put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians"...

Or perhaps you have not read together Surah 9:30 from the Quran which says:
“Christians.... CURSED by Allah, are deluded, away from truth”

But AJLeBreton, even though you and your wife get along fine, this still remains a reality that ultimately we all must deal with.

-The Muslim holy Book curses Christians
-The Prophet of Islam curses Christians

CONTRAST this with the true last words of Jesus:

-Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
-Into your hands I commit my spirit.
-Today (to one of the criminals crucified with him) you will be with me in paradise.

Personally, I don't want anyone whos prophet and holy book curses me coming to this country.

Dear David,

Many are the wars that have been started, arguabley, by fundamentalists who take literally every word that has been written in their chosen Holy Book and, akin to the mechanations of the Beast, demand fealty and servitude by all.

Further, consider that it is very likely that all of the Holy texts have been tampered with to some extent (though I note many would deny this) and also that some of the Holy texts were written at a time when the consciousness of humanity was altogether different than what it is today and, combined with language and cultural differences, suffice to say that it is my view that interpretations of what is and what isn't *HOLY TRUTH* is an inexact science to say the least.

I would suggest that it is better to consult in the solitude of your own *Heart* with your Lord as to what is "good" in advance of wrathful condemnations of those womanising, boozing heathens amongst us who stray from the written texts (as they are today) of the Gospels.

Perhaps U should consider Loving your Enemy *David* even verily if it is the rogue Satan itSelf who comes to sup with U.

More specifically, I am not familiar with the txts that U have mentioned however, I would like to point out that in the part of Islamic Indonesia wherein I dwell, *ChristMass* is celebrated and *JC* is listed in the Al'Quoran as one of the most remarkable of the prophets whose Word, akin to the other Prophets of Islam, must be obeyed & respected.
(I have a little more to say and will post again.)

Dear Boaz,

I think you're unjust in your accusations. With your last statement, you were racist and generalized millions of people. If you had read the Koran fully you will understand that murder is never right and that tolerance is necessary. At the time of Muhammad, he was persecuted by many, as was Jesus and you can't tell me he was ecstatic about it.

Also, I find it a terrible act on you that you actually use Saddam Hussein as an example of Islam. Then I can go off and make a comparison in Christianity with Hitler. A religion does not make a person. A religion by itself is a holy and beautiful thing, humans come into that religion and make it something horrible and vulgar.

Also, either you are ignorant or blind not to see the similarities between Christianity, Islam (and Judaism). They are all based around the same principles and in none of these religions does it allow torture or murder, yet when Saddam Hussein is accused of genocide his religion seems to have to do with it.

I am a Muslim myself and my very best friend if an Wicken and my boyfriend is Anglican and I have never been racist to anyone. But I must tell you that Jesus is also considered a prophet and of very high esteem. I felt as if you were trying to pin Jesus and Muhammad against each other, but I consider both men with a vision and good people. Plus Muhammad has never cursed anyone BTW. No one can prove a religion is right or wrong until they've died so having the battle of which is the right religion is a personal quest, not one to be debated over. Please don't degrade yourself my making racist comments and uneducated comparisons about a religion you obviously know little about.

As for the Pope, I am just so sorry that Catholics are generalized with him. I think the Pope, being well educated should've realized that with extremists littered in Asia he was only going to cause as uproar. Very foolish indeed.

Alia24, welcome to the Forum.

As soon as he is able, Boaz will respond to your thoughtful and balanced post with the most blatant, arrogant and condescending propaganda that you have ever been faced with.

Boaz has developed a reputation on this forum for his rabble-rousing anti-Muslim rants, invariably expressed in the manner of a schoolteacher lecturing errant seven year-olds on their lack of personal hygiene.

You need to be prepared to endure his constant harping on the theme of how wicked Muhammed is the pinnacle of everything evil, and how this corruption inhabits every one of his followers. This is inevitably contrasted with the purity, probity and compassion with which Christians conduct their affairs.

You might occasionally point out to him that not every Christian functions in this way, at which point you must bear the teeth-grindingly fatuous response that they cannot, therefore, by definition, have been Christians in the first place.

At which point you might be tempted to point out the obvious: that evil people exist in every religion, so it is logically impossible to blame their behaviour on the religion itself - it must exist outside that framework, however moral - or immoral - that framework might be.

If you were to do so, you would be thanked for your input, but guided - in a most supercilious manner - to yet another dozen examples of how wicked was the Prophet Muhammed... and you are back where you started.

We've all been down that road, so please don't feel that you are being singled out for special treatment.

Ratzinger gives the impression that he believes himself to be 'god above' and not merely 'one of god'. Have you seen the throne he sits on in St. Peter's? the Carving of God behind him? Shameful ostentation. How many children could the construction of such a thing have fed? Yeah, "do this in remberance of me". Looks like he really understood that one!

Dear Alia24, yes, -welcome!

As Pericles says, there is a pattern to how I relate to Muslims, and on the subject of Islam.
I must take issue with one comment of Pericles though, he said this.

[and how this corruption inhabits every one of his followers.]

meaning of course, 'you'. Normally Pericles has useful things to say, but in this case (as he has often accused me, sometimes rightly) he has grossly misrepresented my position.

I limit my condemnation to Islam and its Prophet. But I urge you to simply consider the actual evidence.

I do so in the spirit and confidence of Galatians 1:8 (please search and read)

Just to engage you on something you said from your post.
"Your last comment was racist"
No.. actually it was 'religiousist' and discriminative, but not racist.

Your religion and your prophet CURSES me because I'm Christian.

I don't think you even saw that..did you ? Did you note the sources ?
I gave them. Do you disagree with the Quran and the Hadith ? please let me know. I don't just paste material out of nowhere.

Now.. Ratzinger

Evidence that the Emperor Quoted by Ratzinger was correct.

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
Narrated Jubair bin Haiya:

(Partial quote)
Al-Mughira speaking (on a mission set by Umar)

"Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." (Pericles, did_you_see_the_last4_words ?)

COMMENT
Kill non Muslims until the rest submit and pay up- LUXURY to killed Muslims. Sounds worrisome and worldly to me. You as a Muslim may consider this 'noble' but I as the 'target' have a different view.
The difference between this and organized crime is that the Crims don't promise a 'Luxurious afterlife' to the footsoldiers but they still want the loot.

Sorry Boaz, I should have said discriminatory, yet there's little difference.

I almost feel as if you're trying to tell me you know more about my religion than I do. I have been a Muslim for a long time and explored numerous religions. Please believe me that murder and hate aren't part of any religion. I actually went in depth of these so called "curses" and I thank you for the laugh. It's true non-Muslims are cursed to hell for not believing. But are you telling me, in your religion I will go to heaven, not being a Christian? Religion is a lot more simple than what people make it out to be. In religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam if you don't believe you will go to hell. Then I can easily say I do not want any Christians in my country if they're religion curses me to eternal hell fire. Of course those words will never be uttered from me because I know religion DOES NOT make a person.

I would advise you reading the whole Quran or living with a moderate Muslim family to truly understand the religion. There's a lot of propaganda by the media in order to gain support for the MiddleEast. Extremists are taking the religion I was quite fond of and made it something vulgar, please don't give them that satisfaction by believing in it.

I will say it now, and I hope this makes it final. If you kill anyone, it is murder (few exceptions as in self defence) especially the murder of women and children regardless, even in war. Being a Muslim I am assured that all of these extremists who bombed the Twin Towers and continue terrorism will be sent to hell. It almost seems as two different religions.

Oh and I should also mention that no religion can be forced on someone, in Islam your intention is everything. And don't tell me what I find noble because all you know of me is my writing style and religion and that much could've been seen with a census form.

Ok. With assumptions and accusations flying left, right and centre, may I please begin by stating off the bat that I am proudly agnostic. I had a Christian Orthodox upbringing but at an earlyish age decided to trade my "faith" in a divine being for a faith in oneself.

Now before I start attempting to shield myself from the stones with my white flag, may I just point out that on a forum such as this it is obvious that its users will consist predominantly of thoughtful people with at least adequate levels of common sense and intelligence (regardless of their ideals - or their definition of adequate, for that matter). So clearly to use ones own interpretation of their faith on its own as a form of justification would be foolish. Does that not merely disguise the fact that every religion appears to have its extremist and its impressionable, who combined can make devestating interpretations of their own?

Perspective. To understand where another is coming from without having to necessarily adopt their views. An awfully empowering asset. Now because David, for example, uses a smug (shall we say?) writing style, has this lead Alia to interperate his parting "COMMENT" as an accusation rather than merely a form of engaging flowing discussion? It appears so. Is religion forced? Often, no. But in reality no human "forces" their kid to walk, or monkey insist their young must climb trees. It just happens...