C'mon up to NSW Danny boy. There is no limit to the profligacy of our state government. We fund the usual totems of left wing wisdom with the latest being the heroin injecting room. But why no official 'petrol sniffing room'? Isn't that discrimination?

Overlooking all the more important factors giving rise to social conservatism in Australia, and confusing what drives social conservatism at the State and National levels, Daniel Donahoo offers an inadequate analysis of the increasing conservatism of the Victorian ALP.

Daniel asserts that "So powerful has the pull of neo-capitalism been, Labor runs the economy more conservatively than the conservatives" but provides no evidence or supporting argument for this imporatnat claim. Besides, he goes on to claim that "Labor’s shift is a result of chasing the Liberal’s tail, but that is more at a federal level. At a state level, particularly in Victoria it is driven by Labor’s fear of the Greens."

But what exactly is the nature of that fear? Certainly it is a not a fear of Green social policy or ideology so much as a fear of losing specific seats. Peter Garrett was wheeled in specifically to the seat of Melbourne in the last few days because the ALP believed Minister Bronwyn Pike was in trouble.

In both instances, in the recent Federal and Victorian elections, the how-to-vote cards preferencing Family First and the DLP over the Greens were driven not by conscious preference for one ideology over another but by feeble-minded miscalculation of the ultimate impact of their above-the-line instructions to voters. It had nothing to do with liking Family First or DLP ideology better than Green ideology - or fearing the Greens policy platform more than the arch-conservatives.

Talking of miscalulations, Daniel twice makes the false claim that the DLP won two seats in the Victorian Legislative Council. This basic factual errors hardly inspires confidence in his public policy think tank, OzProspect.

The more greedy and selfish you are the more likely you are to vote conservative. That explains the shift.

Kim Beasley senior once said, the ALP used to be filled with the cream of the working class, but then it became filled with the dregs of the middle class.

The ALP will not suffer a shift towards economic rationalism on account of preferencing the DLP.

I would like to challenge the judgement that goes "those who defend the family and the unborn are neo capitalists, comfortable, consumer-driven middle Australia."

My evidence?

Significant involvement in the DLP campaign that got Peter Kavanagh MLC elected. I played my part while unemployed and networked almost totally with working class people.

While the ALP had scrutineers in suits, and probably paid, we had up to a hundred people, probably less than three in suits, none paid and most having a full day's work to go to the next day, despite some scrutineering from 1pm till 6am.

I don't know what effect it will have on the ALP to be appealing to Family First voters, but I can tell you that if the ALP do not work harder for the Battlers, the DLP voters will be furious. We may have our hierarchy of values, and rate the right to life as underpinning all other rights, but the only reason we would have neo conservatism on our agenda is because we look forward to its defeat.

Steel can you point me at the research backing "The more greedy and selfish you are the more likely you are to vote conservative."

Or is it just a symptom of a tendancy to assume that those who think differently about an issue than you do are ethically inferior/evil to your own position?

Look a bit more closely and you might find that many on both sides of the political fence care about similar issues and share many values, their voting choices are a reflection on the direction they believe is most likely to lead to a solution.

There will be plenty of exceptions on both sides but don't assume that all those who don't see things the way you do are necessarily greedy or selfish.

R0bert

NEWHOUSE...good on you mate ! That networking is wonderful.

STEEL.. can you explain how Builders Laborers can get around $27/hour for "picking this up, and putting it there.. digging that hole, moving those bricks" etc.. when some one who has trained for 4 yrs is lucky to even scrape that kind of money in ?

GREED you betcha.. SELFISH ? in the extreme... this is 'working class' union greed and thuggery. It is intimidation, it is discrimination where unionized workers will down tools if a non union bloke is working on site etc....

I would say that Greed and Selfishness is at least on a par with the CEO's and their bonuses for taking a company into the red etc...or taking its share price lower...

This is why we need National Repentance, on EVERY level of society.

Social conservatism is simply a reaction by people who have said NO to the deterioration and degeneration of our values once held precious. It is those who cringe in disgust as they (me) drive down Canterbury road Kilsyth each day past the 'sexyland' sex supermarket, who want to chuck when the go into the service stations seething with objectifying, degrading pornography... or who drives past the brothel on Mountain Highway on the way to the gym.

Most people who hold that family values such as respect, dignity, faithfulness, love, monogamy and marraige etc are outraged by the descent into hell the left has taken us down since the 60s. Aided and abetted by amoral money hungry business types.
As John the Baptist would cry out if he were here today:

-Unionists. limit your claims to fair pay for a job well done.
-Managers. limit your claims for remuneration to something not perceived as obcene.
-Men, keep away from all things likely to drag you down morally and love your wives.
-Women, love and respect your husbands, and look to being partners rather than competitors.
-TV progammers, don't seek to increase ratings by increasing the sex content.

and many other things.