Kate is on solid ground when she cites the incarnation for the inclusively of the Christian story. One might add the ascension in which Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father and the lovely books of Jonah and Ruth which destroy any barrier between the grace of God and the outsider.

Her observation that “Catholics, struggling with a disconnected faithful and an absence of relevance, have rushed to embrace that burden.” indicates a denomination wide crisis in which the church has taken its eyes off Christ and has plunged into all kinds of good works funded by government. This if often done in the hope that many will see their good works and become members of the church, something that in my experience rarely happens. Of course Christians should do good works for themselves but in failing congregations getting ones hands dirty with the poor and being funded for it looks like a good thing. However, we do pay the price of our independence. Genuine charitas is rare in government.

While the church is called to open its arms to all, that is not a call to lose its identity as the body of Christ. Doing the work of a government that can only have its eyes on the electorate is liable to spoil the work of those who are called to have their eyes only on Christ. Our place of being in the world but not of it is threatened.

After years of being on the back foot (since Descartes and Copernicus) the church is beginning to see that the secular order, much trumpeted in our society, has feet of clay and that the church holds the key to a proper understanding of the human person and the world. The church militant is making a comeback and finding the intellectual means to put up a fight. The reinvigoration of the church is really our only hope and our only way out of the morass we find ourselves in. We are called, first and foremost, to be the church, good works must come out of that.

Kate, although I'm not in any way religious, I too am very concerned about how the current Federal Government lumps what should be "their" welfare matters onto religious organisations. I am particularly appalled at the way the unemployed and disabled are treated by the miserable Howard led Coalition yet, as I remember, it was a Labor Government that started the kick-a-dole bludger mentality in the first place. Johny "Rotten" Howard has simply mastered the blame game. I was caught up in the mess from 2000-2002 when I left full time work to do a nursing course. Since the course was part time, I was forced onto Newstart and made to jump through Centrelinks hoops like a show dog in training and what a carnival Centrelink is too! My wish is that a Government will come into power that will dismantle the whole disaster by ridding the country of Centrelink and any association with welfare agencies. Imagine the saving to the tax payer such as myself. The billions the Country would save in attemping to destroy the income and sanity of unemployed people would most likely be enough to hand a basic wage to those who can't or won't work and everyone would be happy, but I fear a US style non-welfare system is only waiting until after the Libs are re-elected in 2007.

I too believe the Government has dumped many of its responsibilities. The result is much wasted public money and profit to churches. Recently we have witnessed churches recieving money to employ indigenous Australians and pressing them to volunteer their labour as the church pockets the money. We have witnessed charismatic churches make people work off owed tithe. We have witnessed church based employment agencies milk the government of grants and we have witnessed church based employment agencies neglect the non-christians on their lists. Globally we have witnessed churches collect charity for orphanges and projects in the developing world and only a tiny fraction of money get through.
We have seen secular charities mainly concerned with cures to rarer diseases struggle and collapse competing with the vast resources of the churches.

The majority of religious based service providers are biased and exploitive and offer selective help often only for something in return and under this regime are profiteering out of the misery of others. Only government can provide services efficiently, equitably and self gurad against corruption.

It’s interesting that this piece touched on the issue of non-Catholic students being unable to attend Catholic schools. I find this point to be irrelevant to the main argument, featuring it only to worsen the image of the Catholic Church.

Why would a non-Catholic student wish to attend a Catholic school? Doing so rightfully expects and requires a full participation in the Catholic faith (Baptism, Communion and Confirmation) to subsequently harmonize with the schools’ curriculum and founding ethos.

“Would Jesus refuse an education to a child who needed and wanted it, because that child was not of the tribe of Levi?”

Obviously, Catholic schools take on the amount of students they have space for, and Catholic students should most certainly have a priority when filling this availability. In other words, “Jesus” will teach as many students as He can, and simply chooses the students who will benefit the most from His services. It’s just common sense.

Jesus although only a character in a fiction would not teach non-Jewish children. Jesus was perfectly clear in his prejudice and exclusionism. Paul would have included gentiles but exclude all children who did not accept Pauls divine Authority. Catholic schools have two imperatives to make money and to brainwash children into superstition. Children already brainwashed to a certain level (those already Catholic) naturally take precedence because the brainwashing job is easier and their parents are paid up members of the club. Taking as much children as possible is important because tax payers can be milked for profits. The capacity to take on a lot of damned and heathen children is limited depending on how much money the school can bleed government coffers for.

young upstart,

I was a non catholic that went to a catholic school (albeit until is was kicked out) for a couple of years and they needed bums on seats or they would loose teachers.

In my town the quality of education was poor and the catholic school had the best reputation. to boot, you got to go there for free as they rather have you there than have you leave and loose teachers.

but anyway, i know thats not the norm, but youd be surprised how it all works.

Kate, you did well as Editor of Online Catholics, and once again your contribution to online debate has authority.
Thanks for your critical awareness of freedom - and the essential precondition of thoughtfulness before right action can be commenced.
No 'good work' qualifies a lack of prophesy, when people are seeking answers to the existential question 'Why?'.

I have left a site of teaching work in Catholic education, primarily because as a thinking, reflective if somewhat critical intellect, I was not welcome there. I only assented to work in the system in the first place because I was disappointed with (one of the top government comprehensive school)'s completely secularised project. In the absence of time or freedom to meet and converse about God, young adults clung to favourite teachers as icons of teacherly affection.
As a teacher favouring a measure of sophistication and equality, this status quo was unacceptable. School graduation became a tribute to the personality of one man, given overseas holidays and other presents as signs of his power.

The Marist, and Doctoral graduate Fr Michael Whelan, of the Aquinas Academy in Sydney has noted that one of the sins which beset contemporary living is a stagnated (or suppressed) sense of transcendence. I have experienced this in secondary education generally: of the intellect in Catholic schools; of the heart in State schools.

I believe that we do not earn God's favour or win divine grace by good deeds. Faith is rather a gift. (It is my most treasured way into perceiving reality.)

Let our loving lives be the source of proclamation of truth: God lives, in and amongst and through our human body, the body of Christ!

Renee it is sad you put your superstition and prejudices before the welfare of children. God does not speak because god is myth it is people who speak. Those who speak for god or in support of god are claiming themselves to be god. God is not truth as everything about god is dishonest for the purpose to manipulate to control people to serve a personal agenda. You yourself admit this as you left a secular school in order to follow the agenda of exploiting children to reinforce your superstitious beliefs. It is for this reason that teaching children about god is child abuse. It is this reason why religious based schools churn out disfunctional people. Sadly this immoral practice has survived the darkage and still exists in the 21st century. When will the superstitious exploitation of children stop?

It sounds like West has a problem with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Pertinent sections of this 1948 Declaration are quoted below, from http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

No one is forced to attend a Catholic School, nor are Catholic school students subjected to 'brainwashing'. Their general syllabi are State mandated; religious curricula are characterised by pluralism. This actually means that so-called Catholic school graduates may leave school knowing little about their faith, except the ability to mouth debates between religions on social issues.

Therefore, I see that the risk is a dillution of cultural character, through the lack of grounding in history and philosophy of Western Thought, which characterises our culture. As an astute commentator on this very point, I applaud Paul Gray's article today in The Australian. [Paul Gray: Aunty's anti-Western bias is a dangerous political tool http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20979039-7583,00.html]
From reading this I say: how may students learn to think freely when our national broadcaster, the ABC, is unable to contextualise current affairs within religious language, of metaphysical and historical significance?

Renee are you saying that children in Catholic schools are told that catholic beliefs are not based on truth but on superstition? Are you saying lying to children is benificial to them? Are you also saying Children have a choice as to what they are taught? Are you seriously saying that brainwashing children for the purpose of reinforcing the teachers superstitious beliefs is free speech? Are you seriously suggesting human rights are to protect child abusers from criticism? Are you saying a power crazed misogynous organisation such as the Catholic church which actively persecutes minorities, that has committed ethnic cleansing, torture, raped a couple of continents of their wealth and actively protects child sex abusers within the church should be the beneficiaries of human rights at the expense of their victims?
If not then what are you saying?

'West' quotes 'West'.

Please do not project your own conspiracy theories onto a stranger.

Happy New Year!

Renee by conspiracy theory are you referring to " Therefore, I see that the risk is a dillution of cultural character, through the lack of grounding in history and philosophy of Western Thought, which characterises our culture. As an astute commentator on this very point, I applaud Paul Gray's article today in The Australian. [Paul Gray: Aunty's anti-Western bias is a dangerous political tool "?

LOL Good one Renee! It has often been speculated that Westy had a problem in his childhood in a Christian organisation. He basically hates anything to do with Christianity to the point that his comments sometimes are so over the top as to become comical. You also can't help wondering if his obsession is the expression of some internal struggle whereby he is trying to rationalise the difficult struggle he may be having fighting a strong urge to convert.

Kate,

I'd like to see a response to the comment about the common sense approach of Catholic schools (to an extent reiterated by Westy in his inimicable style). You seem to be arguing that basic common sense is some type of elitism. That doesn't seem to make sense. Jesus didn't choose Pharisees who didn't agree with His teaching to become the 12 Apostles. Instead the 12 He chose were disciples. As Pauline would say "please explain".

Michael.

mjpb I think you speak out of prejudice of me. I am addressing externalities of a political cult which claims a god exists on the premise that members say so. Those members see fit to rule other peoples lives based on claims of superstition. Such a cult requires deceit to operate. It claims moral superiority but holds no good values. Such a cult claims historical justification but denies true history. Such cult claims magical justification but has no proof of god.

Basically Christianity is a group of people with a very bad attitude with no respect for other people. The result is when they are given responsibility over a weaker they abuse that power. It is why all theocracies are despots.

To articulate what I am talking about so you may next time launch an informed attack I recomend you browse the experience of young people caught in the net of Christians in power on http://www.nospank.net/floggers.htm#bujak

Westy,

Sorry if I wielded too blunt an instrument but you do make 'over the top comments'. Look at your current post. Nevertheless I wouldn't rush off and claim minority status just yet if I were you. I don't believe my views could fit within the term prejudice.

Westy you are discussing something relating to one of the major world religions of which your society is a product not a mere cult. Neopaganism to any significant prevalence is a relatively recent feature of the society.

Faith is a factor in any religion but it completely understates the issue to say that God exists solely because people say so. You claim that Christianity has no good values. Clearly the main rule about loving God you would reject. However wouldn't the second main rule relating to loving your neighbour be considered to have some merit even in a secular mindset?

"Basically Christianity is a group of people with a very bad attitude with no respect for other people."

I know you don't listen to responses and prefer to formulate your posts based on what you think Christianity is not what it really is but I'll respond anyway. The Christian belief is that humans are made in the image of God and are to be respected as such. When societies stray from Christianity they typically become violent and disrespectful to people. Look at increasing acceptance of pornography, abortion and euthanasia in secularising societies.

"The result is when they are given responsibility over a weaker they abuse that power."

Not so. They tend to do well in that domain.

I'll read your article.

Sorry again. I haven't seen your sensitive side before. Given your incessant and brutal attacks on Christians it might be worthwhile taking counsel from the saying "he who lives by the sword will die by the sword".

mjpb rather than throw stones at the ogre who you are claiming is wrong not for the reasons he provides but because he is heathen perhaps you could humour me and show that moral authority which Christianity is the claim to be. As the one who speaks as god surely you could excercise a little more wisdom in your attacks. As you speak as god take care to give the claim of god justice. Anyway God is irrelevant, the issue is about people, human agendas and politics.

This is not about wether god or any mythical supernatural beast exists. It is about the Christian claim that they hold the self claimed god given authority over everybody else and the outcomes of that attitude. Christianity and Christians are moral only because they say so. If we include the harm of others or ask why Christianity is moral there is no evidence to support that claim. Everything is based on the self importance that Christians award themselves. Of course there are good people who are Christian but they would be good people even as devil worshippers.

As a Christian you have self gratification and superstitious decadence to gain if Christianity subjugated humanity. This is made very clear by the teaching of religion in schools. Non-christians have a lot to lose - freedom, liberty, moral evolution, the right to peace, the right to inclusion, the right to truth and so informed choice. Christians are demanding a lot from non-Christians just so Christianity can maintain the fantasy that god exists and loves them - themselves.

Hmm, I grew up within the Catholic system and I can tell you that when it comes to having to do some real work instead of just talking about their values of being nice, loving and kind, they run and hide and opt to abuse people instead.

This is not just beholden to Catholics but the Christian insitutions overall. After all, why should we be leaving such responsbilities to those who have abused people and still cover up their cronies to this day?

The government and the people should stop throwing away their responsibilities. We nolonger live as a community. We despise it and that is why society has gone to the dogs.

Oh wow!! I can express what I have wanted to for so long,!! I am actaully a Christian employed by Job Network, and no way is it Christian , or do we favour christians. Daily I am appalled at what we are as consultants meant to 'get our umemployed clients' to do in relation to them being able to continue to receive their benefits they obtain from the government ( what a guilt trip) in relation to job searching, I say it is a load of b....%^#@ and I, like the previous commenter a few back....(sorry, didnt read who). am horrified at what might come once the next elections happens and Little Johnny Howard remains, and we go further along the American Welfare System Path. I would also like Centrelink and Jobnetwork to be no more, and let the people who cant or dont want to work receive their paltry amount and others that want to - they certainly can work and do what is needed for the country and themselves. ! The money saved by not having these agencies to 'fix' the unemployed would be of huge proportions. and one can only imagine the great and wonderful things that could be done to help this country, eg water, etc to be very basic.
The Jesus I know does not burden people. He is full of love and mercy and kindness and goodness......so, God help some of us!!