My goodness. Feminism is now being equated to human rights and social equality. I thought Feminism was organized activity on behalf of woman's rights and interest. I have as yet to hear them stand up and insist upon actual equality. However I did hear a woman refer to the feminist movement as the "wise woman's way" and she made it very clear that the undefined "wise woman"s way" was very much morally and ethically superior to the "wise man's way". Stuff like this really gets me laughing. Because some women feel dominated by men and unable to express themselves in a "man's world", then the world must be altered to a "woman's world".
I asked my wife during the show if she wanted to live in a "woman's world" and she said, " There's no way I'm going to start all over at the bottom and have to prove myself to a woman in the hopes of being treated equally".
It took us both a while to catch on to what she had said.

aqvarivs, "I thought Feminism was organized activity on behalf of woman's rights and interest. I have as yet to hear them stand up and insist upon actual equality." - that would explain your approach to feminism.

Read a bit more widely, there are some good feminist writers around who are calling for equality rather than pushing the "women are naturally better than men" line. It's to easy to mistake the stuff that gets drawn to our attention (mostly because it is extreme) for the core of feminism but feminism is much more than that. Just as the mens movement is not all about men who want wives just like the Cambodian women are trained to be (but does have some extremists with those kinds of views) feminism is not all about women wanting a swap of roles.

I don't always agree with the assumptions made by equality feminists - I think many have massively overestimated the level of privilege enjoyed by the average male and I've got a fairly strongly expressed disagreement with what has become a standard feminist line about gender and DV/child abuse issues but then one of the best writers (who I've read) on the topic is a feminist (Patricia Pearson).

I've recently finished a book by Norah Vincent called "Self Made Man" which is a very worthwhile read. I don't agree with it all but there is some good food for thought in it for us all. Basic premise, Norah spent about 1 1/2 years masquerading as Ned Vincent in male roles to try and understand how different the experience was. Generally more extreme situations than form my day to day life but the observations are very honest and worth thinking about.

Make sure that you are not caught up in the idea that extreme feminism reflects what most feminists seek, they no more reflect what an equality feminist is seeking than those who think that the inbalance the article speaks about is good reflect my wants as someone pushing for a fair go for men in family law.

R0bert

Thank you Robert.
You put the case very eloquently.
Women's rights are, of course, human rights, as are children's rights and men's rights. Women's rights do not take precedence over other's rights but, equally, nor should women be asked to sacrifice their rights because it makes life easier for others for them to do so. No adult should be asked to "always" obey another adult merely on the basis of the other's gender, or race, or religion. Imagine the howls of outrage if a culture said black people should always highly obey white people, or christians should always highly obey jews, or catholics should always highly obey protestants. But we are less likely to be outraged by such statements when they refer to women and men, or wives and husbands, because such pronouncements are so common they are virtually invisible.
Many of us still have a problem in seeing women as being as fully human as men, that's why we accept abuse of many -particularly third world - women with little concern, or rationalise it as cultural.

Sorry Robert but, I don't know the first thing about equality or the "mens club" or "the male dominated society", or "men working in concert to keep women down". I get up every work day morning and put my pants on, go in for a bit of coffee and quick hug with the wife and drive to work where I greet my female boss and settle into the work load with my fellow slaves to the machine. If I've gotten a raise above the usual cost of living or what not it was because I work damn hard and prove my usefulness each and every day and that my commitment to the job goes beyond punching the clock. If my worth to society has to be subjugated to the "needs of the female victim" please don't ask that I read more to better understand their issues. I have a wife that gets up every work day and goes out into the world to contribute to society and earn a few pesos to create a better life for ourselves and our children. My wife does not consider herself a victim of a male dominated society. She will tell you with quite a bit of anger about the social sexual damage women do to women in the name of feminine empowerment. We are not victims nor put upon by society. We pride ourselves on being contributors and think and work in a more holistic manner to life's issues and social governance. We are not left nor right per say but sometimes a little this way and at other times a little that and not always in full agreement. P.S. Cambodian women are not sexual slaves to a dominant uncaring male society. That's a western feminist interpretation made exclusive of the males cultural responsibility to family and mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. It's not actual.

aqvarivs, I've not been to Cambodia so my views on the issues there are shaped by what I've read. From what I've seen so far my views largely agree with the author of this article.

Your family situation may be more a reflection that much of the vital work of feminists in this country is done (I know some will strongly disagree).

Would your wife be as happy if there was cultural pressure on her to "highly obey her husband" rather than being part of a partnership with you? Would you be happy if she was not allowed to work because she was married or if she got less pay than the guys she works with doing similar work? Does your wife enjoy the times when she is trying to conduct a transaction and some clod insists that she bring her husband along to talk about it (friends of mine still cop this fairly regulary)?

The extremists have done real harm to our society but I don't see any basis to seperate out the harm that they do from the harm done by the extremist paternalists. Both have sought to build divides between men and women. Both have sought to place one gender over the other and both have sought to portray the other gender as less able.

I think it is important for those of us who believe in equality to make a stand against all extremists, not just the extremists on the other side. Just as I oppose those who wish to portray men as "overwhelmingly responsible for most DV and child abuse" I will also oppose those who think that women "should highly obey their husbands".

They are all part of the same problem.

R0bert

Unfortunately Robert no thing in society is accomplished in a vacuum. Feminist nor "Masculinist" have contributed or raised up society alone. Men and women have always worked together to effect change. Men were hunters, women were gathers. Simple enough statement. Accept it for the moment. I fail to understand how women as gatherers becomes less a valuable contribution to that society. Industrialization wasn't an attack upon the female species. It was a mechanism to make mans work faster and more efficient. It's a simple fact that at that time in the history of employment man came first. And womans place was in the home. It wasn't a concerted effort by man to keep woman down. There were X number of jobs and many men went unemployed as it was or they conveniently died in some misbegotten foreign war. Times change and practices change and cultures change. We have a very strong cultural speak of the Feminism battle to create equality. Their historical victimization by men. It's bunk and it's twisted and it's done to devalue men on the whole. The one true constant is that men love women and women love men and we have worked well to this point in history. To highlight the exception and to say that the exception is the greater truth is political feminist counterculture. There are many predominantly agrarian cultures still in the world that have not yet had the experience of Industrialization. That in itself will be a great hurdle. To jam feminism down their throat and to demand that they transform their culture overnight is criminal and not the great altruistic feminist gift to human society that is pushed in western PC media. There is a time and place for all things and Cambodia needs a time to mature and heal from a most terrific historical wound.