Well just to piss everbody else off :), I've kind of achieved
financial security and I did it by competing with the Chinese,
in the global marketplace. I did it by focussing on consumers
and their needs!

Tao, I don't know your age, but go back some years and
"Japanese junk" was a common phrase. The Japanese were doing
what the Chinese are doing now, focussing purely on price and
producing alot of el cheapo rubbish.

The market is far more complex then that, as the Japanese
learned over time. Yup there is a market which races to
the bottom, based purely on price. Then there is the mid
market, which is about value for money. Then we have the
snob market at the top, where people are prepared to pay
for exclusivity.

What employers soon learn, is that hiring the cheapest workers
can in fact be very expensive. They can easily ruin expensive
machinery. They are too stressed to produce high quality
products. The company is only as good as its employees, so
it pays to pay higher wages and obtain the best workers.
Smart employers recognise that and their products will appeal
to the value for money sector, who are sick of buying products
that they have to throw away due to quality problems.

Over time, I think that what happened in Japan, will happen
in China. Employers will realise that el cheapo is only one
small sector of the market.

Personally I am not an el cheapo customer, but a value for
money customer. I don't want the cheapest dvd, but one that does
the job and lasts. That means paying better workers higher wages,
spending more on materials etc. I don't care if it costs an
extra 20%, as long as I know that I don't have to throw it on
the scrap heap after a short time.

In short Tao, you are ignoring the realities of the marketplace.

Col

I too went through major problems and came through them.

But I consider that I may have been lucky. Yes I know that luck only comes to those that perform but I enjoyed a reasonable share. I do worry about those who have dificulties. Intelligence, which is something you clearly have is a matter of genetic luck. I know many who cannot survive without help. And there are a limited number who can be self employed.

There is a lot of reason in your argument but I think there are many who cannot get there in the way we did.

And Tao

This cheating of the tax system is not something I could recommend. The tax department has a way of catching up with cheats. I personally follow the advice of an honest accountant and sleep at night.

Yabby,

“Why-do-you-have-a-problem-with-capital-moving-to-the-third-world?”

I didn’t say I had a problem with it, I said that the problem with your conception that things would get better was that once wages and conditions go up, capital will move somewhere else. My statement was not an expression of my subjective “problem” but of the objective reality of capitalism.

“The-market-is-far-more-complex-then-that,-as-the-Japanese
learned-over-time.-Yup-there-is-a-market-which-races-to-
the-bottom,-based-purely-on-price.-Then-there-is-the-mid
market,-which-is-about-value-for-money.-Then-we-have-the
snob-market-at-the-top,-where-people-are-prepared-to-pay
for-exclusivity.-

What-employers-soon-learn,-is-that-hiring-the-cheapest-workers
can-in-fact-be-very-expensive.-They-can-easily-ruin-expensive
machinery.-They-are-too-stressed-to-produce-high-quality
products.-The-company-is-only-as-good-as-its-employees,-so-
it-pays-to-pay-higher-wages-and-obtain-the-best-workers.-
Smart-employers-recognise-that-and-their-products-will-appeal
to-the-value-for-money-sector,-who-are-sick-of-buying-products
that-they-have-to-throw-away-due-to-quality-problems. “

“In-short-Tao,-you-are-ignoring-the-realities-of-the-marketplace.” Really? Lets have a look at some Japanese market realities shall we?

Japan has had 15 years of economic stagnation after its meltdown.

Many Japanese companies are using China as a cheap labour platform. In 2005, Japanese exports to China grew 8.9% - down from 29% in 2004, while imports from China rose 15.7% resulting in its largest bilateral trade deficit with China of $28.66 billion.

There has been growth of low-paid part-time and contracted labour in Japan. In 1990 ‘non-regular’ workers made up 18.8% of Japan’s workforce rising to 30% in 2005. Most are young, unskilled female workers.

Canon now employs 70% of factory staff as “non-regular” workers, up from 50% five years ago, and 10% a decade ago.

Over the past 10 years, the number of full-time jobs has fallen by about 4 million.

Last year Sony announced plans to slash 7% of its workforce, or 10,000 jobs by 2008.

In 1998 workers pay accounted for 73% of corporate earnings, in 2005, 64%.

The net debt of Japanese households in 2003 was 317% of disposable income, compared to 185% in the US in 2004.

Yes, things are getting better for Japanese workers. The suicide rate from 1997 onward has risen from approximately 22,000 to 30,000 per year. In 2004, there were more than 32,000 suicides. Many are middle aged or elderly males facing financial difficulties. The number of people in their 30s committing suicide jumped by 17% to 4,603 in 2003 as compared to the previous year. Among elementary and middle school students the suicide rate increased by 54%. Yes, that’s right 30,000+ people per year KILL THEMSELVES because life is SOOOOOOOO GOOD in Japan.

COL..... r u currently in Queensland ? I'm trying to recall, but I think at one stage u said ur in Melbourne right ?

You should come to the Demo I'm working on mate :) wont be huge, just a photo opportunity mainly.

Yappy.. again.. valid points. Right now I am faced with a customer who is telling me "Well..we need a reduction in price, we want to try to keep this job in Australia" HAH...that company does over a million bucks worth of business with just one company alone which brings these parts from China. In my game, I can't follow ur line, the Chinese stuff is usually damn good.

I'm still going to milk the "TAX CHINESE CAPITALIST SLAVE OWNERS AT CUSTOMS" thing for all its worth though. I can't wait till I'm less busy.

OH.. just a quicky... for those who so often criticize the 'Church' for many things, ask yourself this, when was the last time your local rotary or lions club raised a million dollars in one night for Aids orphans relief.. and chaneled it through Bono's ONE.ORG
This one did: http://www.willowcreek.org/default.asp
Sorry...thats off topic, but its exciting.

Tao, whichever way you want to argue it, fact is that Japan is
one of the wealthiest countries on earth, with wages some of the
highest on earth, standards of living close to some the the
highest on earth. All this from a country which was producing
"Japanese junk", using so called exploited labour, not so long ago.

Harakiri is part of Japanese culture. Losing face is a major issue
in their culture, so suicide is considered "honourable" You are
trying to judge their society through your eyes, which is where
you are flawed.

So globalisation has worked extremely well for Japan and its
citizens.

On the other hand, if you think that the Japanese are so hard done
by, perhaps your criteria for judgement should be as to who are
the happiest people on earth? I recently read a survey which suggested
that it was the Nigerians. Based on those paramenters,
we would need corruption, starvation, exploitation and a host
of other nasties to achieve the happiness of the Nigerians!

Perhaps you need to navel gaze just a little bit more :

Tao I see you have tried to answer, however, all is not as one would assume.

Q1 – demonstration is China – terrible, what was the response? I know what the response would have been in 1989 and worse before.

Parallel, 1926 general strike in UK with the treatment of Tolpuddle martyrs some 100 years previous.

A demonstration in China in the pre mid 1990’s would have seen the entire family placed into one of the most repressive prisons system on earth. That people feel free to demonstrate is indicative of an improvement in circumstances over those when they dared not.

Q2 – your responsive question is not an answer
Q3 – see Q2
Q4 – is ungrammatical nonsense.

I suggest you try again and when I say “try” I mean "think" too.

I recall Chinese embassy officials running through London with hatchets intent on killing the “capitalist running dogs” in the name of the “oppressive regime in China,”

Re “which is what makes investment there so attractive “ Prior to 1990 the regime was so repressive no one invested in China. It was only through some liberalization of their attitudes that China attracted any investment.

You need to put things in an historic context, tao. The world did not start the day your Mum hatched you.

That China is moving forward displays the “goodness of man” however, my view does not deny that evil men exist, I could list thousands of them Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Milosevic, Ceausescu as well as the criminally deluded like Trotsky and Che Guevara.

My reality accepts, we move forward from where we are.

Only simpletons presume that whining about something will make it magically disappear or that everything is, like it looked in our early childhood, a rosie playground.

Japan, they say one generation creates, the next builds and the third squanders, Japan is experiencing its third generation with pre-eminence of authority since WWII.

Economies also go in cycles, another generation and Japan will wake up to its moribund state.