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The Forum > Article Comments > Labor’s death wish > Comments

Labor’s death wish : Comments

By Peter McMahon, published 1/12/2006

The ALP is defunct - run by soft-headed opportunists with minimal understanding of the contemporary world.

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“The manifest failures of the Coalition, such as its disinterest in environmental or Indigenous affairs, were passed over by the voters who only took account of its apparent economic management credentials”.
Where’s the failure? They keep being re-elected, and that’s all politicians are interested in.
Of course voters “only took into account … economic management”. What’s the big deal about that? Rightly or wrongly, voters are more interested in their hip pockets than they are in anything else; especially in indigenous affairs – where too much of their money is going, to no avail. At elections times, money is the only thing that matters for most voters – including the moaning Millies of the left who are always making pronouncements on social issues at other times.
As for interest rates, we still remember the 17% rates of the Labor era, and people are becoming convinced that governments have no say in interest rates. Howard might have been stupid in claiming that the Coalition would be a better bet on interests rates than Labor, and he deserves everything he gets for that; but now that it is clear to all but the dopiest voter that politicians have no say in interest rates, they are not going to trust the ALP any more than they trust the Coalition.
Interest rates, as well as indigenous affairs and the environment, and IR laws will be non-events at the next election.
However, the author’s opinion of the ALP is spot on, and it’s interesting that Julia Gillard is named before that insufferable bore, Kevin Rudd. Beazley should be sitting on a verandah somewhere with a rug over his knees, but Rudd is not a suitable replacement.
Australians have to face the fact that we will never get a decent government from either major party as they now are. Worse, we have yet to see anything to replace either of them
Posted by Leigh, Friday, 1 December 2006 9:09:30 AM
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Beazley does seem to be steering the ALP ship towards the rocks but who in his hand picked crew has the credentials to assume the role of Captain? His first mate (has he told you he can speak Mandarin?) still buys his pirate’s clobber in the boys department. The ship’s treasurer has a history of squirreling money away in brown paper bags. The ship’s cook, a feisty redhead (she still dyes her hair in the bath) speaks in a hard to understand language so she may have to work on that. The ALP ship’s navigator is a messianic ACTU heavy who is being packaged as our savior (Hawke was packaged the same way). Even the ship’s minstrel has been approached to lead the motley crew but he prefers life in his bark hut. Red Pete, the ship’s doctor, is not too popular after it was discovered that people from his village were subjected to quackery. We have the usual array of old pirates who each own a treasure map. The ‘X’ on the map reveals the location of the taxpayers’ treasure. Just who on board the creaking old tub 'Disaster' will assume the role of Captain?

Why not make the parrot captain
Posted by Sage, Friday, 1 December 2006 9:24:04 AM
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NOT ALP but AUSTRALIAN POPULAR IGNORANCE which is defunct.

I watched in total bewonderment, how thousands and thousands of gullable Australian workers, unionists gathered in Federation Square (I missed the MCG event.. too late) and actually seemed to believe that getting rid of Howard and replacing him with a Labor man will suddenly give them the job security they want.

AJAX and IR LAWS. So, lets ask a telling question. "What connected does the 200 lost jobs at Ajax (an iconic company) have to do with 'HOWARD IR LAWS' ? If you are having trouble coming up with a connection...thats because there ISN'T one.
Ajax had contracts with vehicle manufacturers, but clearly their original pricing was based on costings which for AJAX increased, but, not being able to increase their contracted price to GMH and FORD etc, they started to make a loss rather than a profit.

RESCUE DEAL, when the car companies were sqealing like stuck pigs (that is a squeel to run from.. I worked one day in an Abbotoir.. yuk)
about desperation for on going supply, they worked out a 'deal' with AJAX. But what was the deal ?
1/ From Ajax point of view: Car companies will pay more for product, and re-assess the pricing of fasteners in their costing (Most likely)and this will lead to on going work and job security.

2/ From Car companies point of view: "We will bail them out for the shortest possible time, while we secure other sources from China and other places at lower prices. As soon as we have those sources, we will cut Ajax loose and they can go jump."

We now all know which view prevailed and 200 people are jobless.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 1 December 2006 9:53:35 AM
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...continued.

HENCE MY SIGN at the protest "BLAME CHINA". But..is that the full story ? There are 2 actions which WILL give more job security in manufacturing and IT, Sales,Customer service and back office type work.

1/ Tax at customs on goods manufactured under SLAVE like employment conditions, where the level of tax is determined by the country of origin.
2/ OUTSOURCED OVERSEAS LABOR would be a separate field on business tax returns, and would NOT be allowed a 100% deductability as a business expense.

WOULD BEASLEY DO THIS ? I'm sure HOWARD will not, and no one else has the clout.

So, if TRUE job security in many fields where we are losing out to overseas interests is found in something no politician of note is willing to do, then....

THE OBVIOUS QUESTION arises..'what' the heck was this protest really about ?

Clearly, the majority of Unionists who attended have been sucked in by the false idea of 'better conditions/protected conditions/secure employment' under LABOR who will not actually deliver. So, the rally was purely about UNION POWER and attempt at relevance.

If the Unions were serious about worker interests, they would advocate my two points above. Most passers by agreed with my position at the rally. The 2 who did not....one was a communist woman and the other a chinese youth (probably the son of a 'New Capitalist' chinese)
I'm crushed :)

WILL HOWARD DELIVER ? yes..for the miners and graziers and big petro-business but for 'workers' (Ajax)? dubious.

WILL BEASLEY DELIVER ? yep.. short term gains for unionists until all their jobs (except those impossible to outsource like cutting grass) are gone, with no real fundamental change.

SOLUTION ? yes.. see my 2 points.....or, (like me), buy some acres and be prepared to grow your own food, but don't...repeat DON'T hope there is such an animal as 'job security' lurking out their in the economic jungle.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 1 December 2006 10:04:07 AM
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There is a simple saying in politics made by a successful political leader, "If you cannot govern yourself, you cannot govern the country." Beazley, Crean, Latham, Rudd...who needs to watch a US soap opera when you have the real deal.
Posted by matt@righthinker.com, Friday, 1 December 2006 11:04:44 AM
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Yes. Peter, many of us more radical ones having left the local University of the 3rd Age, because it has pretty well in its politics become a short-arm of government, have been phoning up each other that Julie Gillard is the one to go for.

If historical portraits mean anything Julia looks very much like a young Queen Lizzie the First. Maybe she has inherited something. And even though a female, let's go for her, because our politics, including the US politics, should benefit, as history has often proven, from a change to the feminine gender.

Couldn't possibly do any worse, anyhow.
Posted by bushbred, Friday, 1 December 2006 11:32:46 AM
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People are dreaming if they think that global warming is going to become a hot button issue - no pun intended.

Despite what the polls say, the population's commitment to tackling it is soft. It's dead easy to say to a pollster you support more government action on climate change - most people don't understand yet that it will demand that they pay more for their electricity. Take the poll after that dawns on them and they'll be a lot more circumspect.

I suspect the left loves the global warming issue because it permits, no demands, a quasi religious fervour. The more you believe it must be tackled now with drastic action, the more ideologically correct you are. Because it's a phenomenon that will be played out over decades, likely hundreds of years, real results are difficult to measure. Faith is what is required.

This is not to say that greenhouse gas emissions should not be reduced. I think that would be prudent. But people aren't going to accept some of the more radical nonsense being espoused by the Greens and the left of Labor. More likely they will accept considered measures that reduce emissions in the long term and learn to live with a slightly hotter climate over the next century or so.
Posted by grn, Friday, 1 December 2006 11:56:45 AM
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On Monday morning as Kevin Rudd walks out of that room as leader of the ALP a new start will have begun.
The party will have said it understands its not party faithfull we need to win over but those who left us and have voted for John Howard for 3 elections.
Kim you good bloke, the best Minister for defence we have ever had, thanks but it is time.
Time to commit to winning an election not a factional war.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 1 December 2006 12:52:38 PM
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Neither party will attempt to tackle global warming. These are politicians, and they will only do what will get them re-elected. The country will demand this thing is seen too. Provided there is no loss of life style or any inconvenience; they will demand the government do something. Most are expecting to live it up now, and get another crack at it in the next life. Bargain :)
Posted by treyster, Friday, 1 December 2006 1:31:09 PM
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Governments lose elections, Oppositions don't win them.

What is interesting about global warming as an issue is that Labor has been so slow to publicly embrace green issues that they cannot make any political capital out of Howard's obvious temporary discomfort.

Global warming will blow over as an issue and Howard will win. Then global warming will be an issue again, and the cycle will repeat until the environmental wheels really do fall off and John Howard is simply a University that no-one attends or a tollway in Melbourne.
Posted by westernred, Friday, 1 December 2006 3:06:23 PM
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B_D, you put it into perspective very nicely. I'll admit to being a Labor voter most of my voting life, although I did swing when "that" PM stated "If Labor gets in, you'd better hide your money in the mattress", however, I've become very disillusioned with Labor over the last few years. Sometimes, I walk around the house wringing my hands in despair at the notion that there's nobody who will stand up for the commoner. The current political landscape has all but made Labor and the unions irrelevant and yet at the same time, the people of Australia has been deluded into thinking the Coalition is some magic force in controlling the economy. They keep harking on this 17% interest thing from bygone era and yet Howard's track record on Government book keeping is appalling if you look back at his time as Treasurer. Everybody's pretty happy at present as the mineral and mining boom trickles down through the economy to provided a mirid of unnecessary toys such as Ipods, flatscreens, mobile phones, 4x4's and McMansions with more rooms than a decent family could ever need, but what happens when the economic bubble bursts? Excessive living and credit card debt will quickly bring the chickens home to roost. My prediction is this... Labor will not be able to match the lies of the Coalition Government next year and will remain in opposition. John Howard will be forwarned of the imminent crash and will resign on a high note as his hero Bob Menzies did. The crash will see even the most ardent supporters of the Libs writhe in financial agony as their dreams and security go up in smoke. Thousands will loose their homes, their cars and their lifestyle. Labor will be powerless to offer a solution and despair will scatter votes to some very strange parties in the 2010 election. B_D makes very good sense when he says to grab a modest patch of land and grow your own veggies. If you can keep up with the exorbatant rate hikes, at least you won't starve to death.
Posted by Wildcat, Friday, 1 December 2006 3:27:44 PM
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There is one way that Labor will win the next election easily and it was put in train today.

Whatever you think about Kevin Rudd he is no fool, to bring on a challenge he must have 30 votes in the Labor Caucus so all he needs is one more vote.

I believe he will win, Beazley made a big error by refusing to re-shuffle his front bench and get rid of the dead wood. Swan, Smith, Albanese can anyone remember any others?

The next election will be won or lost in Queensland, and a leader from Qld will help.

Start trembling Johnny, the real Labor party is starting to rise and your repulsive Govt. is on the way out :)
Posted by Steve Madden, Friday, 1 December 2006 6:24:05 PM
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Well after 4 elections won by the conservatives you can't help but be a little pessimistic. Yes the Bombers got to go but will Rudd just be a mild mannered version of Latham? If he does, he's got 6 months to entrench his image as an alternative PM is the minds of Australians who have grown complacent about anything and everything.
Those 18 year olds who voted for the first time back in 1996 are now 30. Those 45 yrs olds r now 55 and worrying about super and retirement. Can Rudd turn them on?

If Beazley wins the caucus vote millions of Australians will know once and for all that there is not a God. At least not one that votes Labor.
Posted by Rainier, Saturday, 2 December 2006 12:48:10 AM
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It is sad to see so many who are oposed to Howard who will not vote for the only party that can remove him.
Two tasks the ALP must take on , Kim must go on Monday or we admite we are not trying to win.
And ALP branchs need reviewing, some are private property! even holding meetings in the branch owners , yes owner! home so those wanting a more balanced branch will stay away.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 2 December 2006 7:01:54 AM
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Leigh, you seem to have trouble getting a fix on this. “We still remember the 17% rates of the Labor era”. Why tie interest rates to a government, particularly since “politicians have no say in interest rates”?

Cast your mind a little further back. Can you name which treasurer presided over 22% interest rates, and whether this factors into your argument?

A government is, or should be, more than mere bank managers. The socialist reforms of the Whitlam era (and I would nominate Gough the best PM in recent times in this regard) is what brought you many of the work benefits you enjoy today. John Howard of course is well on the road to unravelling them, as recent IR reforms attest.

“Rightly or wrongly, voters are more interested in their hip pockets than they are in anything else.” Well that much is true. Given our potential I find this limited horizon a little despairing. Don’t you?

DB you make some good points in this regard. Job security is minimal as long as everything but labour is globalised. I do believe though there is a place for unions. Y’know, “The people who brought you weekends”? There is an eternal power play between employers & employees. Some have it good, others don’t. And I think there is such a thing as a pendulum, which is out to the right somewhere…

Wildcat you’ve made a lot of predictions, most I agree with. Here’s a couple more - by Monday afternoon Rudd will be leader, Gillard deputy; Beazley will become the eventual successor to Barry Jones, while Peter Garrett will be wheeled out from wherever he’s been hidden to take on the tories’ environmental record.

Rudd to defeat the Man of Steel? The common perception is he’d need a charisma injection first, but I reckon he & Gillard together will give them a run for their money.

Some amusing analogies Sage. Howard does just seem to sail on, and on, and on…oh no I think I’m gonna be seasick
Posted by bennie, Saturday, 2 December 2006 9:59:58 AM
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Looking at this from outside (I've never voted Labor) Howard has done a lot of stuff I detest but I've seen nothing to suggest that Labor's list would be any less. Rather a different and possibly longer list.

None of the major parties seem to take the idea of a fair go seriously.

Howard may be leaving workers out to dry with his IR laws - I am having trouble sparating out Labors electoral ambitions from the real issues on that one but Queensland under Beattie has been far worse for me as a worker (in the electricity industry) than it ever was under the coalition.

Howard has mislead the australian people but his Labor predecessors did so as well (not to mention our state premier, the master of the coverup).

The coalition has not done enough to fix the family law system but Labor set that mess up in the first place and it's appointee's seem to be the strongest advocates of the worst aspects of it.

The coalition has played a sick game with the portrayal of the DV issue ignoring completely the plight of male victims of DV but again Labor plays an even sicker game on that issue.

Howard has taxed middle income earners ruthlessly but Labors retoric suggests that they still want to take more from us.

The combination of my mortgage and interest rates means that to much of my income is going on interest but I've not seen anything from Labor that suggests a better plan for me as an existing borrower.

Until Labor starts making some kind of principled stance and following a view of fairness that I can relate to then it remains an issue of which scoundrel will do the least harm to the country and to myself.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Saturday, 2 December 2006 10:12:33 AM
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Steve, part of me hopes you're right, part of me hopes you are wrong. I'd love nothing better than to see the Howard led Government trashed at the polls next year, but in reference to my last post, I believe there are very difficult days ahead for the economy of this country in the near future. Howard has become very adept at playing dirt politics and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if his financial team have forewarned him of a turbulant economy just around the corner and that he sneakily "hands over" power to Labor so as to be able to say "I told you so" once the recession is leeching the life out of lower to middle class Australians within the next few years. We all know Australian voters on the whole, are too inane to to look at cause and effect of financial market meltdowns and instead blame the Government of the day. If my predictions come true after a Labor victory at the polls next year, guess who will win the 2010 election. Best "Rotten Johny" stays right where he is in 2007, but with loss of the Senate. That's the best we can hope for Steve.
Posted by Wildcat, Saturday, 2 December 2006 10:20:02 AM
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bennie, the ALP is dedicated to a narcissistic version of iconocentrism. Therefore, when mention is made of the ALP treasurer (whose creativity with T/A claim forms remains a source of wonderment) please use his correct title: The World’s Greatest Treasurer. The way you talk about him would cause the casual observer to think that some yob was yanked off the street and asked to sit down and write a budget.
Posted by Sage, Saturday, 2 December 2006 11:44:22 AM
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Labor have had the last 40 years to do the job. Instead they have squandered opportunities and created the problems that we have today.

To list a few:

Privatisation - The GATS agreement.
Immigration and refugee policy.
UN treaties.

I don't know how a year out of an election, replacing Kim Beazley is going to help the Labor Party image and direction.

His latest rounds of gaffes and lack of information, are a combination of his public labor party advisors and secretaries.

Napoleon said, never assist your enemies when they have made a mistake.

Perhaps the factionalism and greasy pole climbing within the Labour ranks and caucus is causing the lack and inabiltiy for the Labor leader to do his job.

The combination replacements that was presented as an alternative to Kim Beazley as leader only leaves a door wide open to mock and ridicule from a Liberal party that has a solid record of succeeding with this agenda, combined with the monetary funds to do it.

The sideshow which is deliberated at high noon on Monday 4th December between the Labor power brokers sounds like another Latham episode. And they lost that one too.
Posted by Suebdootwo, Saturday, 2 December 2006 12:56:13 PM
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I think Australia should take a major step to the left and elect Greens. Both the major parties are afraid of upsetting someone and will do nothing but produce spin worthy of Warnie. If we don't do something serious in regard to GW we will most likely be in for disaster. In this sense electing the greens may be the middle way. No doubt there we be an economic price to pay, but if you believe in the dangers of global warming, a lesser of two evils. Both the Labor party and the Liberal party are extreme risks to our children's furture. Even if the greens had the balance of power, the major parties could do something and then blame the greens. ps till now I have been a labor voter.
Posted by treyster, Saturday, 2 December 2006 1:01:38 PM
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Earlier this year I heard one of my University tutors, a former Howard Government MP, disclose that Howard was comfortable with Beazley as Opposition leader, as internal Liberal Party polling had found that Australian’s would not elect a fat Prime Minister in this day and age. Perhaps this explains the ritual and very public morning jogs of Honest John and his zealous support for Australian sporting teams. The former MP also explained that the government satisfaction with Beazley meant that they would never go for his jugular.

Regarding the leadership ballot on Monday, I don't think the ALP has anything left to loose in voting in Rudd/Gillard. Beazley has barely given the government a blood nose on any issue since the last election. His monumental slip up in referring to Karl Rove instead of Rove McManus was a colossal gaffe. Such a slip provides the government with a cache of ammunition over his ability to run the country, as I would expect the government to play on his past lapses with his health concerns (leakage of brain fluids). How would Beazley cope with remembering the fine details of politics when he confuses one of Australia’s current premier entertainers with a George W. Bush staffer? Beazley is campaigning on experience. The only experience people remember is his experience of losing. How many voters would remember him serving as Defence minister, and what relevance does that have, as it was many moons ago.

I like Kevin Rudd as a foreign minister (perhaps that is because I compare him to Downer), but I think that he is too astute to connect with the Australian public as a whole. I am a fan of Julia Gillard. Beazley and Macklin will not win the next election. While Rudd and Gillard may also not win, I think they have a much better chance than Beazley
Posted by gilbertos, Saturday, 2 December 2006 2:02:17 PM
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"The facts are always friendly" This aphorism, that I attribute to one of my teachers along the way, means that it is wise to align oneself with reality rather than to deny or distort it. With respect to Industrial Relations it means that relatively unskilled workers who do not enjoy the protection of locally bound functions are destined to lose their jobs. If work can be done more cheaply elsewhere then it will be done there. Holden and Ford are not ogres with respect to Ajax, and they are quick to assert that they need to protect the jobs of their assembly workers. So we need to skill and educate our people so that they can compete effectively in their labour. The Labor party has a great message here, but why are they unable to push it effectively?
Posted by Fencepost, Saturday, 2 December 2006 6:11:53 PM
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Fencepost

We need an industry policy, not free market rape and pillage. :)
Posted by Steve Madden, Saturday, 2 December 2006 7:45:23 PM
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"I believe the country is calling out for a fresh vision, for new ideas, for a new agenda for Australia," said Kev Rudd.

mmm?

I wonder what this means?

Is it just the unual banal noise that challengers make?

Has the country ever NOT called out for a fresh vision and new ideas?

I suppose we'll all just have to wait till after Monday.

If Beazley wins it'll be be business as usual with the usual faction fighting.

Two things are for certain, if Rudd gets up Howard will need to think of how to dress-down his credibility. Not an easy task if you ask me.The other is that some of the shadow and Ministerial aspirations of some of young bloods will be curtailed.

My heart says Rudd, my mind tells me Beazley by one vote.
Posted by Rainier, Saturday, 2 December 2006 10:39:47 PM
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The two greatest talents that the ALP have are Gillard and Rudd--in that order. Unless the ALP come to their senses, they have no real chance at victory come the next election.

The two greatest talents that the Coalition have are Howard and Turnbull. Upon Howard's departure, putting anyone in place other than Turnbull will mean handing a victory to the ALP...especially in light of how slow the Coalition can be on certain obvious issues such as global warming.

To grn's comment on global warming. Grn wrote:
"People are dreaming if they think that global warming is going to become a hot button issue - no pun intended.
Despite what the polls say, the population's commitment to tackling it is soft...most people don't understand yet that it will demand that they pay more for their electricity. Take the poll after that dawns on them and they'll be a lot more circumspect."

My response:
The fact that the population's committment to tackling global warming seems to be soft doesnt mean leaders can stand by and do nothing by conveniently pointing to a lack of perceived public committment. That sort of a lazy cop out eventually comes back to bite! Strong and visionary leaders have the power to mobilise support and resources for an issue...that's why media advisors, spin doctors etc are hired.

Tackling global warming doesn't necessarily and simply have to be about people paying more money for electricity. Indeed, such a suggestion reveals a lack of understanding about the kinds of solutions that global warming requires given the realities of domestic and commercial daily activity. The idea that solutions to global warming are *all* about increases in the cost of energy is a *very* simplistic and unimaginative to say the least.

The fact is that demand for energy is going to exist, the challenge is to find alternative and more efficient and cleaner ways of delivering and/or using it.

Turnbull is genuinely inclusive, engaging and has the energy, vision and genuine committment to tackle what will become one of the most pressing and pervasive issues of our time.
Posted by Smithers, Saturday, 2 December 2006 10:43:07 PM
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Hi all

I have only read the first two posts. Leigh - your views are always interesting.

Sage - I can't stop laughing!!

Cheers
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Sunday, 3 December 2006 1:02:08 AM
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Beazley by one vote? never! 2 things can right now take away Labors chance in the next election a win for Kim and even worse a close contest.
By 7.30 tommorow no later Kim should withdraw from the contest.
He should put the party first, have no doupt Rudd will win and lead us well.
In two months his polls will be our best in a great time, no Mark Latham this bloke he is on track to bring new direction.
Rudd by nothing less than 5
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 3 December 2006 5:46:47 AM
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"Kevin Rudd ....... promises nothing genuinely new."

There is a marked difference between Kevin Rudd and any other politician we have. He is part of the world, he speaks Mandarin (and I believe Swedish), he has lived overseas, been in business and run a consultancy, he is not a lawyer or a school teacher.

He is not an academic on the left who screams out for righting the wrongs of the world but has never really lived in it and has not the foggiest idea of how to achieve anything in practice. We are in a global world and we have to benefit from it not just shout slogans. I think Julia Gillard simply lacks the wordliness. Tomorrow it appears will signal a marked change - it is to be hoped that the left will continue to speak up for the rights of the underclass but learn to support the view that only a commitment to reality can achieve anything.
Posted by logic, Sunday, 3 December 2006 11:00:26 AM
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Rainier,
maybe this latest dispute in the labor ranks are an opportunity provided by God.

One of the posts mentioned the senate.

Imagine the possibility of having an Indigenous Australian senator for each state.

Maybe the time of the Labor versus Liberal/National/one-nation is due for challenging.

Is it possible that the 2007 election will be more interesting that previous ones.

Maybe it is time to step out of the square and think laterally.
Posted by Aka, Sunday, 3 December 2006 11:28:27 AM
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I generally agree with the comments above. To really be in the race, Labor needs to get new leadership. Rudd and Gillard are the alternative at the moment although I have reservations. If Rudd gets up, the ALP will be going from taking the low road (Beazley) to the high-brow road (Rudd). The danger is that both approaches are off-target and therefore unpopular with voters. Despite this, the good thing about Rudd is that he'll energise the party and show that there's more going on behind the scenes (and in their heads) than the public is aware of.

I reckon Labor could inadvertently be setting up a solid middle-of-the-road candidate like Simon Crean to eventually lead the party again. After all, the people do not want Care Bear or Einstein to run the country, but someone who has lots of experience and who is strong and committed. Can it realistically be anyone other than Crean?
Posted by RobP, Sunday, 3 December 2006 2:19:35 PM
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Much as I dislike the patronising voice style of Howard, I would be far less attracted to the nasal, colloquial speech of Julia Gillard -the Jeannie Little of the ALP.
Posted by Ponder, Sunday, 3 December 2006 2:32:53 PM
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Ponder, more like Kath from Kath and Kym.

The other thing is how can something that is near dead have a death wish?
Posted by Rainier, Sunday, 3 December 2006 7:44:32 PM
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I think wildcat and DB have basically surveyed the situation well, with a few good survival tips added in. No matter the politics, Australia is going to bounce like flotsam in the wake of a world economy. Currently, were surfing on a Chinese /Indian boom – having body surfed, it would appear gravel rash and a good dumping is inevitable.

With a few acres, a vegie plot, a generator, a good wine supply and minimal debt one might just survive.

Kath and Kym I found to be a good analogy.
Posted by relda, Monday, 4 December 2006 9:37:09 AM
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Keeping in mind the comments are often from some who never vote Labor I still find it hard to understand some one supporting Simon Crean for any position.
However Kevin Rudd [ and the party can be pleased] is no Crean or Latham.
He also is not the nice well loved Beazley.
He however is the first leader in all these years in the wilderness who can and will lead us back to goverment.
And he will be a briliant PM keep your powder dry this bloke will win the nation over.
Those who stood by Kim once too often must execpt both the party and Australians who want change have spoken.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 5 December 2006 4:31:37 PM
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One thing Kevin Rudd certainly has over Kath or Kym is his far higher IQ.

Hopefully, the standard of parliamentary debate will improve where John Howard (himself a clever performer) will finally suffer a reasonable challenge. The public may have found him a 'safe-bet' for a little too long - let's see, shall we?
Posted by relda, Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:45:44 PM
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The Kath and Kim stuff is fear driven its the conservatives fearing a Labor party with leadership and policys.
Foget the bounce in the polls just watch this bloke take the party into winning position.
New policys and direction concerns conservatives for far to long they had an opersition unwilling to get wind in the sails.
IQ? not many will match Rudd.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 6 December 2006 2:54:57 PM
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Relda,

I feel you are correct. A reworked ALP with Rudd would stimulate debate. Also, one hopes good debate. Bob Hawke before he came to Office wanted an improved quality debate, perhaps, with Rudd will do better. Hope so. Think the Party has a better than 50:50 chance at the next election too. But that is way off, yet. Never understood why Mark Latham was chose.

Albeit, in seniority centric patrimonial based Asia, Little Johnny's long dynasty might be an advantage? Pitty the Pacific is falling apart.

A world without George Bush and Bonsai Bush might not be far off.

[The Sells thread is still quite lively.]
Posted by Oliver, Tuesday, 19 December 2006 7:04:14 PM
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Labor party with a better chance only for those who only recognise two party's.

Labor party is stale from the ground up,inside and out.

They with the unions have what to offer that they have had the monopoly with the liberal party now for how many years.

these two have lost touch with the people and changing the face is just like when they did it with latham nothing more.

Rudd doesnt make policy the labor party and unions make policy.
Posted by tapp, Tuesday, 19 December 2006 7:54:16 PM
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Peter McMahon writes “Can Labor pull itself together and regain relevance, as it did in the early 1970s? Not with its current leadership, membership and party processes it can’t.”

Oh so, it is not the Liberals fault that Labor cannot “get it up”

it is

The leadership – oh those leaders, elected by who,

wait for it

The Membership – of course, the membership oh so undeserving

And the “processes”, well processes are only as good as the people who operate them, that darn leadership and membership again.

And all this time, I thought any organisation is only as good as its membership.

“The ALP is defunct - run by soft-headed opportunists with minimal understanding of the contemporary world”

And I suppose the “Peter McMahon for world domination party” is waiting in the wings to destroy, with a single blow, the low life curs who have reduced labor to a pitiful dollop of doggie doos.

Alternatively, maybe the one time “party faithful” have seen the irrelevance of socialism and wiped it off the underside of their shoes as they move onward and upward to a the economic wonders of free-market economics, which turns the bright light of honesty on all those socialist lies and myths.

Oh, I could have a field day on this thread but I will resist, in polite society, it is considered bad form to speak ill of the dead.
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 19 December 2006 8:26:45 PM
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