Tony would say that I am wrong to believe that most Australians wouldn’t give a thought to the agreement – him being right all the time – but I’ll say it anyway.

I’m delighted that the fiasco of West Papuans entering Australia illegally and dancing around their flag here after being granted TPV’s has been addressed. And I’m sure that Australians do not have to concern themselves with any other aspects of the agreement. That’s what politicians are for. Foreign policy, as Tony should know, is a matter strictly for elected government and their advisors. Not the rest of us.

Tony is no fool. He has held responsible positions. But, when it comes to gauging what Joe Public thinks, he is out of his depth. He also suffers from that touch of arrogance, which always ensues when people of his ‘class’ start lecturing we plebeians. Does he really think, for instance, that Australians would be happy if Indonesia did withdraw its cooperation in the prevention of huge numbers of illegal entrants arriving in their country? Does he really think that most Australians outside his immediate circle and those who always go public with their open border nonsense really sympathise with the 42 renegades who dumped themselves on us? He probably does, but only because he has never got down and dirty like the rest of us.

Our government, bungling though it might be and, currently, lurching from one hopeless plan to another on ‘climate change’ rather than things far more real and important to Australia, has not sacrificed human rights in West Papua by signing the agreement. Human rights in West Papua are something to be thrashed out internally. They have nothing to do with Australia. Our rapidly tyring government (read past-it PM) has got this one right

"But, when it comes to gauging what Joe Public thinks, he is out of his depth."

But Tony is an eternal optimist. He thinks humanity is worth saving in the long run. That means putting his neck on the block.

There is no greater threat to Australia's or Indonesia's security than lying politicians. As time goes on, all their efforts are consumed by the need to maintain the facade. Lies have a voracious appetite. We are seeing this now. The effort to reconcile past secrets with present "realities" would be a comedy if it wasn't so damned tragic.

Leigh seems to have killed debate stone dead with his heavyhanded intervention minutes after my piece went up last Friday. As usual, Leigh missed the main point of my piece with his left-right pigeonholing. Take his rhetorical question:

"Does he Tony Kevin) really think, for instance, that Australians would be happy if Indonesia did withdraw its cooperation in the prevention of huge numbers of illegal entrants arriving in their country?"

Of course I don't think that. But the possibility my paper raised - something I went into in far more detail in a speech I gave at ANU on 15 November, which I hope somebody will be brave enough to publish - is the interesting possibility that some senior serving or retired Indonesian national security people may have facilitated the upsurge of Middle Eastern origin people smuggling through Indonesia between 1999-2001 as retaliation for East Timor's secession. Now what does Leigh think of that proposition? It certainly puts a different light on the "happiness" we Australians should feel at Indonesian government cooperation since 2002, does it not?

And what do others think ? Is anyone prepared to debate the merits of this proposition?

@tony kevin:

Your "propositon" sounds like paranoid mumbo-jumbo. What it shows is your extreme anti-Indonesian fanaticism and disgraceful ingratitude for Indonesia's kind and benevolent willingness to take action on Australian concerns out of our naive intention to be good neighbour.

Little did we know that when dealing with a little, dumb, ingrate, and racist "country" like Australia, being good neighbour is impossible.

i can't imagine trusting howard and downer to get anything right.

leigh should be careful in saying that foreign policy is too hard for us plebs- even if we are not wiser than politicians, we are at least trying to profit our nation. politicians must concentrate on getting elected, a different thing entirely.

indonesia has little to offer australia, and perhaps vice versa. we don't need a treaty of military co-operation, nor do they. unless, that is, one is getting ready to invade the other, and a treaty will stop it?

this is just another secret deal, done between politicians for political advantage within their respective countries. like the amusingly mis-named "free-trade" agreement with the usa, howard seeks to 'manage' the electorate into blindly putting his mob back into power.

meanwhile, australia slides down the path to environmental disaster, undertakes military and police roles around the world which will end in making us violently unpopular, and cloaks the government's corrupt machinations in secrecy.

if the australian electorate were capable of effective assesment of their government, there would be revolution. fortunately for the politician's guild, the electorate evolved from the same society as the pollies, and is equally incompetent.

These days, "Proud to be Indonesian" has become a parody of himself/herself. I suspect he/she may be as Indonesian as Borat is Kazakh. PTBI might well be a cute role-play by an Australian with an anti-Indonesian axe to grind and a peculiar sense of humour. Ah, the joys of internet anonymity !

Anyway, PTBI, here are a few names to think about. Alatas. Wiranto. Kopassus. Abu Quassey. Kevin Enniss. Mick Keelty. And read my book on SIEV X.

Anyway, PTBI, who was worse? - Those who instigated the Middle Eastern people smuggling trade through Indonesia or those who tried to disrupt it - by methods that possibly included disabling and sinking boats and thereby risking innocent human lives ? I don't think I am being anti-Indonesian or weird - I am just asking fact-based questions about the conduct of both countries' security agencies or rogue elements within those agencies. This is not an anti-Indonesian discussion, at least from my end of it.