Even if the rumours of a “Jakarta Lobby” are true, the expression has been around for so long that it is now very much a cliché that could put at least half of would-be readers off when they see it used again.

Even if we accept the contention that criticising some Indonesian practices – real, imagined or manufactured – does not necessarily make the accusers anti-Indonesian, we do not have to criticise in the first place.

What Indonesia does or does not do is not our business. If people in Indonesia believe that they are treated badly, it is up to them to do something about it. Democracy is not given, it is won. Some people who have enjoyed democracies that have been around for a long time seem to think that we have been lucky; that it just dropped into our laps. We are lucky only in the sense that our ancestors long ago fought for and gained what we have today.

Third World people and their governments have to come to terms with what they have now, and change it if it is bad. Democracy is not a gift; it is a struggle. Outsiders have nothing to do with it

Leigh,
You're only partly right. It's certainly true that democracy has to be fought for by the people themselves not imposed from outside. The Indonesians did this against all the odds in 1998. I was there. Now were there any external factors at play? Of course there were. Only an absurb anti-globalist would argue that global events didn't play a role - albeit a supporting one - to the Indonesians themselves.

Leigh, look at what the IMF was doing in 1998. Look at what USAID was funding? Look at what Congress and even the Clinton administration were saying. Look at the international media. Countries can't be sealed off hermetically from the outside world.

And further to the article, did you see Ed Aspinall's article in "Inside Indonesia" arguing that Papuan activists were motivated by racism and religious bigotry? Now that really is Orwellian...

LOL, who the hell does this little dimwit Adam Henry think he is?

We the great and proud people of Indonesia will do whatever we feel like concerning our internal affairs. If Indonesian people feels like it, we will establish democracy like in 1998. If Indonesian people feels like it, we will establish an authoritarian system like in 1959 and 1965. It is also the unshakable iron will of Indonesian people to mercilessly annihilate the barbaric and murderous Papuan separatists. In Indonesian affairs, only the opinion of the great Indonesian people matters.

We the mighty people of Indonesia don't give a rat's arse on Australian concerns. The opinions of weakling Australians are irrelevant and worthless, we value Australian opinions as much as a handful of dust. Should Australia try to interfere in our internal affairs, we the proud people of Indonesia are always ready to give Australia the b!tchslapping it desperately needs to put this little country in its proper place.

Proud to be Indonesian, it's funny how you only ever contribute when an opportunity appears to have a go at Australia. If Indonesia was so great and mighty, surely you wouldn't need, nor ask for our help every time you have a little disaster. I mean you have ten times more people than we do, yet you come crying to us over every little thing. It's pathetic, and typical of predominantly Muslim nations, and their weak arse victim mentality. Always crying poor when things are bad, then claiming strong & proud independence whenever a criticism is thrown your' way. What a joke. One would imagine when a nation has that many people, that it might be able to mobilise them to help themselves, but this isn't the case is it? And you call us weaklings? Hilarious. I doubt your' military could do much to Australia if it came to that anyway, since their preferred foes are unarmed civilians. If it were so great, you wouldn't need our endorsement to legitimise your successive corrupt ratbag regimes, and if you didn't have natural resources, we wouldn't help you at all, since people like you prove to us you aren't worth helping. We're all laughing at your' pathetic backward little third world 'nation'.

In fact, the average Aussie simply couldn't care less about you, or anything that goes on in your piss weak excuse for a nation, and sees no reason to assist you when you’re down. I certainly don't, I don't know anyone who does, and really if it weren't for the fact that we hold helping our fellow man so dearly (unlike yourselves), we'd probably kick you instead. It'd be no less than most of you deserve with the attitudes you display. Little wonder Indonesia is not an internationally respected nation. The only people in need of a slapping around here is you with your' grandiose & entitled rubbish.
I just feel sorry for the Papuans, and every other little country whose sovereignty your stole, and who now have to live under the violently oppressive thumb of the likes of you.

Cont’d...

I find it very amusing how Indonesians think we should care about what they think of our internal affairs, such as our treatment of Muslims (which in my opinion is too soft anyway considering their apparent criminal complicity through silence), but they don't have to care what we think of them & their behaviour. Such hypocrisy. Why we eat crow for these scum beggars belief.

When a nation executes small time drug traffickers as a matter of course, and in the same breath allows mass murderers to walk free, there can be no respect for this country, and we shouldn't give them a damn thing, least of all friendship, humanitarian aid or endorsement of their criminally corrupt regime. It's obvious they are protecting the real drug dealers by executing those who can finger them (since the Mr. Bigs are clearly connected to the authorities in countries like Indonesia & Singapore who have reaped huge profits from Heroin), and giving overt government support to terrorist groups like JI.

The only thing they do is stem the tide of boat people, and I honestly doubt they do a very good job of that. Why would they? They don't do anything else well (except kill innocent people).

Speaking of hypocrites, it wouldn't be at all surprising to me if I discovered that "Proud to be Indonesian" actually lives in Australia, and furthermore works for some scumbag area of the Indonesian government, possibly their ambassador?

@Stomont:

LOL, don't worry mate. Indonesia does not need any "aid" from your puny little weakling country. Indonesia is capable of handling every disaster that occurs in its country by itself, as it has been doing since time immemorial. The bulk and core of every aid effort is always Indonesian.

It is only because Indonesia is such a popular country, so many foreign friends want to help Indonesia during the recent series of unfortunate natural disasters. We always help ourselves, and even if we feel like receiving foreign aid, we don't need little Australia, since we have every country from Afghanistan to USA making aid to us without the annoying chest-thumping attitude that came from the stupid little Australians.

AUSTRALIA, GO TO HELL WITH YOUR AID!

Other indicator that Indonesia is so popular abroad is that we are elected by hundreds of countries into the UN Human Rights and Security Councils, while nobody votes for the despicable Australia.

We the mighty and powerful Indonesian people couldn't care less about your "internal affairs". We don't bother with weakling and powerless little country like Australia. Heck, even the tiny Solomon Islands enjoy thumbing their noses at you. We only feel sympathy to the legitimate owners of Australia, the Aborigines, who have suffered genocide and whose lands have been stolen by the despicable whites, descendents of criminals.

BTW we actually don't need nor want this little pact with your weakling country, this pact is actually the result of years of begging from your PM Howard and FM Downer. We Indonesians are hardly aware that this pact even exists, since we just value Australia as much as we value Democratic Republic of the Congo or Burkina Faso.

Indonesia is not mighty, and it is not a nation at all.

There is no Indonesian nation, only an Indonesian state, which only exists because the Dutch were stupid enough to try and govern all those islands as one unitary state instead of a federation. It should be renamed the Javanese East Indies.

OK then, kick all the non-aboriginal people out of Australia. However, there will only be half a million people left. And who's going to replace those nasty white people? Nice Javanese migrants, who are so anti-racist that they regard Papuans as savages? You probably think the same about Africans, despite all that propaganda about 'Afro-Asian Solidarity'. You only club together when you've got a grievance against the industrialised north.

Indonesia popular? One of the most corrupt, nepotistic and incompetently run places in the world. Go to hell with your aid? Yeah, right! Your ambassador in the US is whining that your air force can't get spares for its ageing Hercules fleet.

Leigh, it's all well and good saying democracy is something that should be won, but if opposition movements weren't allowed to take refuge in other countries, there'd still be apartheid in South Africa. And maybe what we now call Indonesia would still be Dutch!

"Indonesia is not mighty, and it is not a nation at all."

LOL, what a joke. It is an undeniable fact that the common experience of cruel oppression under the evil Dutch created the indefegitable Indonesian nation, transforming it from a motley collection of weak statelets perrenially fighting each other to the extent that they can be pwned by a peanut-sized country like Netherlands, to a proud and mighty Indonesian people that with ease gloriously liberated itself from the weakling Dutch by killing 4000 Dutch soldiers and 1500 British soldiers, and then gloriously ethnically-cleansed 500,000 white parasite settlers from our country.

"Nice Javanese migrants, who are so anti-racist that they regard Papuans as savages?"

LOL, the tolerant and unprejudiced Indonesian govt and people always consider native Papuans as our brothers and sisters, native Papuans have won Olympic medals for Indonesia and has always represent Indonesia in international sport and arts forum.

We only consider the murderous Papuan separatists who cruelly murdered two American and one Indonesian teachers in 2002, and who brutally slaughter innocent transmigrant women and children, as savage barbarians. To annihilate these separatist animals is a benevolent and necessary act of mercy to prevent innocent people from being killed or harmed by these genocidal-minded racists, just like it is necessary to kill Hitler and annihilate the Nazis to save the Jews.

DEATH TO BARBARIC PAPUAN SEPARATISTS!

Dear, oh dear. Yes, Indonesia is more tolerant of non-Muslims than Malaysia, but you're just as much against the Jews as they are - and it's laughable that you should compare the Papuan separatists to the Nazis instead of the Jews!

Do I condone the way the Dutch treated its colonial subjects in the East Indies? No. And just because I don't agree with Javanese racism towards Papuans doesn't mean I advocate independence. Oh, and if the US and the Australians hadn't been so sympathetic to you in the 1940s, you'd have been under Dutch rule a lot longer, however 'indefatigable' you say you are.

What is so mighty about Indonesia? Nothing. It is just a house of cards, which is why its Javanese political and military elite are so insecure about autonomy, never mind separatism. Malaysia and Singapore get on much better with each other since they parted company in 1965 - Sinagpore didn't want to leave Malaysia, Malaysia kicked Singapore out.

China and India are going to be superpowers, no doubt about that. But Indonesia? What a joke. What are you going to do, develop nuclear weapons? Without the ethnic Chinese and Indians, Indonesia's economy would collapse.

..continued

"You probably think the same about Africans, despite all that propaganda about 'Afro-Asian Solidarity'"

LOL, don't worry. Indonesia always have good relationship with our African brothers and sisters. Our first president Sukarno was in fact the founder of the great Afro-Asian Solidarity movement, while Indonesian businessmen have invested much money into Africa.

"One of the most corrupt, nepotistic and incompetently run places in the world."

This is a good description of East Timor, a half-island whose hopeless attempt of creating a "state" failed in a humiliatingly spectacular manner. The people of East Timor are so barbarically violent and the govt so idiotically incompetent, foreign troops must come to prevent East Timorese from killing each other. Indeed this most corrupt, nepotistic, and incompetently-run place called East Timor is too uncivilised and unfit to be independent "state". East Timor has really disappointed Indonesian President Habibie who gave them independence as a gift in 1999.

"Your ambassador in the US is whining that your air force can't get spares for its ageing Hercules fleet."

LOL, don't worry. Indonesia is perfectly able to manufacture weapons by itself and/or purchase it from overseas sources ranging from Israel, Russia, China, and USA. Indonesia currently are purchasing $1 billion-worth of Russian weaponry.

AGAIN, GO TO HELL WITH YOUR AID!

"OK then, kick all the non-aboriginal people out of Australia. However, there will only be half a million people left. And who's going to replace those nasty white people?"

Don't worry, we Indonesians know and recognise the ownership of Australia by its only legitimate inhabitants: the noble Aborigines.

RETURN AUSTRALIA TO ABORIGINES NOW!

"Oh, and if the US and the Australians hadn't been so sympathetic to you in the 1940s, you'd have been under Dutch rule a lot longer, however 'indefatigable' you say you are."

LOL, what a joke. The proud and mighty people of Indonesia purchased our great independence by blood, and by gloriously relieving 4000 Dutch soldiers and 1500 British soldiers of their lives.

The Americans were supportive of the Dutch for most of the war of independence out of their racial prejudice. That the Americans eventually supported our cause in a limited way is because the glorious Indonesian armed forces annihilated the treacherous communist after their 1948 Madiun rebellion done under the orders of Moscow, and due to the gold-class superior diplomatic skills of Indonesian ambassadors to USA and UN (Haji Agus Salim and Lambertus Nicodemus Palar).

"It is just a house of cards, which is why its Javanese political and military elite are so insecure about autonomy, never mind separatism."

LOL, Indonesia is a mighty and superior construct we can flexibly switch our type of govt 6 times in 60 years of independence. Currently, we are the most decentralised country in the world under our own self-made Regional Autonomy Program kicked-off in 2001.

"Sinagpore didn't want to leave Malaysia, Malaysia kicked Singapore out."

Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew was trying to expand his power from merely ruling Chinese Singapore into the ruler of all Malaysia by actively campaigning to woo Malaysian Chinese community that then made-up 40% of the population. Malaysia expelled Singapore to prevent Lee from turning Malaysia into a Chinese country like Singapore.

"China and India are going to be superpowers"

LOL, Indonesian people has no interest in becoming a communist dictatorship like China, as they had expressed in 1965. Indonesian people also had no interest in becoming like India, a poverty-stricken and conflict-wrecked country where 35% of the population can't even read and write.

"Without the ethnic Chinese and Indians, Indonesia's economy would collapse."

LOL, you hilariously confused Indonesia with Malaysia. Indonesia's economy is overwhelmingly controlled by the govt, while ethnic-Indians hardly exists in Indonesia.

It is fascinating to note that no one seems to have comprehended the ethical critique of this article. Instead they seem determined to prove the validity of such a critique. Which Australian ancestors fought for our freedom? I was not aware that our democracy was secured in such a fashion (it was actually an act of the British Parliament)!

With his American inspired computer geek speak (LOL LOL) it is quite interesting to note that PTBI has not offered one factual or historical response to the article. Not one. Instead through his crypto-fascist tendencies he has proven the central thesis of the article. That to some sorry individuals ethics and morality come dead last no matter what.

I can only hope that PTBI debating skills are not the product of a full fee paying course at an Australian University. If so I'd ask for my money back and start searching for some books, perhaps there is a 'Rhetoric for Dummies' publication available for private study in Bahasha.

After all, we'd all be missing out on the entertainment if the BIN (or the Indonesian Embassy) decided to find someone less embarrassing and damaging to the online Indonesian reputation.

Hope you continue to enjoy living (working, studying, "spying") in Australia.

After all it would be difficult to imagine that someone like yourself would ever be a tourist or immigrant to our little country!

Yes I think it was worked out that PTBI was full of the proverbial some time ago, which is why nobody has graced his idiotic ranting with further responses.

It is funny that the Indonesians think they can sway opinion with an idiot like PTBI (what do they have to be proud of anyway) on the payroll. They really must think the average Aussie is as dumb as the average Indo.

Maybe a moderator should delete his account since he really does seem to be an Indonesian government spin doctor, and a second rate one at that! :P Where's ASIO when we need them to deport, or arrest and interrogate foreign spy's such as this one? They could easily work out which computer in the Indonesian embassy his posts come from.

No one is falling for the propaganda of this hopelessly corrupt & immoral regime, and there'll never be respect with their attempts to warp history to their liking, as often as they like to try.

The hilarity of some of the comments is comedic gold.

I suppose they're just doing what they do best... biting the hand that feeds like most of the backward peasants to the north of us, with their massively inflated egos, and the ridiculous excuses for government, justice & military.
I doubt there's a nation on earth of any significance that actually cares about what goes on up there, let alone harbours respect for these animals.
When you look at it, they really are nothing short of a pack of inbreds, whom our government feels the need to be nice to, just because we're neighbours, and we have little choice when they're executing our kids.

Do they really think we see them as anything more than disgusting, hypocritical, terrorist sympathisers? I certainly don't, and as far I can see they should be given full membership to the Axis of Evil, treated accordingly, and not repeatedly welcomed into our arms with their habitual backstabbing, goat shagging, money grabbing, self interested behaviour.
It's like dealing with depraved children whenever this lot are invloved.
Who needs it?

@Isaac Brock:

Aww, don't be so upset, brockie. I am merely trying to make Aussies angry as punishment for their arrogant behaviour. I realised a long time ago that most Aussies are too ignorant and too racist to have a coherent debate concerning Indonesia. In any case, Indonesia's internal affairs is none of Australia's business. We don't care what you think. So, why engage in such a futile and useless exercise such as debating Indonesian internal affairs online with Australians lol?

@Stomont:

Indeed, the less the two countries Indonesia and Australia has to do with each other the better :-)

PTBI you are no different to S (or is that Stormfront). Both rely on racist stereotypes and generalisations without ever producing one ounce of evidence to support your positions.

Neither engages intellectually with the article!

Indonesia, nor Australia, does not live in a vacuum. The article as far as I see is twofold:
1) Yes it is critical of the TNI's military record. However it makes no charges against the Indonesian nation or people. The article is as I see it urging reform of the practices of the TNI for the benefit of the Indonesian nation
2) The article is primarily focused on the Realist strategies of the so-called Australian Pro-Jakarta Lobby. Australian foreign policy is what is savaged in this piece.

Apartheid South Africa rejected comment on its internal policies and human rights practices on identical grounds to you PTBI.

They developed a self-sufficient economy to stifle the possible use of economic sanctions. It was only at the very end that its economy faltered. Indonesia, since the Time-Warner meeting in 1967, has not been self-sufficient.

To suggest that Australians are racist, while the Javanese are not, flies in the face of empirical evidence. While tolerance and multiculturalism might be heralded in your constitution that has not been the practice. You are very well aware of this P.
The most popular adverts on West Papua TV are for skin whitening products aimed at dark skinned indigenous Papuans.

There are Australians that are racists, but then there are Indonesians that are racists, Chinese that are racists on and on and on. Conversely there are hopefully many more of us who are plainly not racists.

Ludicrous to suggest that no Australians can comment on Indonesian affairs! In light of your own long list of comments (which must have you in the running for a BIN or Embassy bonus) that request is absurd.

Have a Merry Christmas and New Year PTBI.

Perhaps you should write an article for Online Opinion next year?

Best,
IB

@Isaac Brock:

LOL, comparing Indonesia with apartheid South Africa is very hilarious. There is absolutely nothing in common between our superior and tolerant country Indonesia with that ridicilously unsustainable racist South African apartheid state. In fact, Indonesia has always been a supporter for black liberation in SA since the Asia-Africa Conference held in Indonesia in 1955.

I think it is more suitable to compare such a racist white regime such as apartheid South Africa with colonial country Australia.

BTW,
RETURN AUSTRALIA TO ABORIGINES NOW!

Issac (by the way it's Isaac. even PTBI knows how to spell that one), one would think if you're going to say things like "Both rely on racist stereotypes and generalisations without ever producing one ounce of evidence to support your positions." that you yourself might come up with that evidence which you accuse PTBI & myself of lacking. But you haven't produced one ounce of evidence have you? Man I hate self-righteous hypocrites whose parents made their name up by misspelling another:P
Btw, Stomont is a derivation of my name. Nothing to do with Stormfront, whoever the hell they are. But I must be a racist bastard since my best friends are Cypriate, Persian, Taiwanese & Vietnamese, and I'm engaged to a Peruvian. Must be a racist eh?

If you actually read my post, I was merely having a stab at PTBI, since I couldn't care less about Indonesia or the article.

If it weren't for his original racist attack I wouldn't have bothered posting.

PTBI, are you serious? Give it back to the Aboriginals? What, so they can pollute the earth with their fires again, or so you lot can come dominate them, and steal/mismanage the resources? I think they're better off with us to be honest.

How about RETURN PAPUA TO PAPUANS, or RETURN ACEH TO THE ACEHNESE or RETURN BALI TO THE BALINESE? Cuts both ways. Hell we had to kick you out of Timor coz they were sick of being murdered and tortured by "Indonesians".

You guys have disenfranchised & destroyed many more populations/cultures than we ever have, and at least we try to make amends, no matter how badly.
Another hypocrite.

Anyway, how about making a contribution to OLO that doesn't involve Indonesia PTBI, or are you really sitting in the embassy's propaganda department?

"PTBI, are you serious? Give it back to the Aboriginals? What, so they can pollute the earth with their fires again? I think they're better off with us to be honest."

How disgusting and outrageous! You whites already committed genocide against Aboriginals, stole their land, and kidnapped their children. Now, you are still so cruel and racist you dare insult and dehumanise these noble people? What a lowlife thief!

Return Australia to its rightful owners!

RETURN AUSTRALIA TO ABORIGINES NOW!

"Must be a racist eh?"

Yeap, as your cruel racist attack on the victimised Aborigines above clearly shows.

"How about RETURN PAPUA TO PAPUANS, or RETURN ACEH TO THE ACEHNESE or RETURN BALI TO THE BALINESE? Cuts both ways."

LOL, Papuans, Acehnese, and Balinese are ethnicities, all of them are Indonesians. Papua, Bali, Aceh, and other provinces already belong to Papuans, Acehnese, Balinese, etc.

That a bunch of genocidal thieves living on stolen land like Australians dare to call others as thieves is just too bizarre.

Once again, RETURN AUSTRALIA TO ABORIGINES NOW!

"Hell we had to kick you out of Timor coz they were sick of being murdered and tortured by "Indonesians".

LOL, weakling and powerless Australia never has any ability to kick anyone from anywhere. The fact is, it was Indonesian president Habibie who kicked East Timor out of Indonesia by giving them independence. We are now content seeing this unsustainable half-island enjoy being a failed state and the poorest country in the world.

Addendum:

@Isaac Brock:

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year too! I can't wait for my holiday trip!

@Stomont:

I might post elsewhere if I find the topic attractive :-)

Sorry, must have caught you before the Prozac had time to set in!

Never suggested anything about those groups you highlighted, only your racist language against Indonesians and Aborigines. Just so you know (by the sounds of you must be a brilliant Hebrew scholar) Issac is the Dutch version/variant of the Hebrew Isaac..... but of course you already knew that.

Stormfront are a white supremacist group. I just assumed by the lack of intellect to your responses to PTBI (who at least knows how to put together a position) that you might be connected.

Any fair reading of your posts indicates something cultural and possibly racially based against indigenous Australians. South American friends don't actually mean you are not racist against Indonesians and Aborigines. I mentioned if PTBI paid up front fees for an Australian university course he should ask for the cash back, you on the other hand might benefit from some debate tutoring from PTBI....(he's right wing but he "sounds" well read and intelligent.

PTBI, you know perfectly well that Indonesians are not into toleration the way in which you imply. Yes, Sukarno as part of his move into leading the non-aligned anti-colonial movement supported liberation. Good on him, but that does not support your assessment.

My point was that the Indonesian economy is not self sufficient and theirs was. They did this to extend the middle finger to the world regarding their human rights conduct.

What I also connected was that the human rights excuses of hardline supporters of Apartheid greatly resembles your own current hardheaded approach. As member of a nation shaped by Dutch colonialism this similarity, own your part, is not LOL funny. It is very sad.

You know full well the record of the TNI.

I can concede aspects of your comparison with Australia, but this too is your own racially based assessment.

There are indeed parallels with SA in Indonesia, Israel etc Perhaps the reason you fail to see in Indonesian reflects that the dominant Indonesian ethnic group shapes your own social outlook.

Anyway PTBI Merry Christmas.

Best I

It baffles me to read PTBI comments on this article. He seems to have unreasonable hatred toward Australia. His comments implies the anti-western perspective.
I mostly disagree to what he said. It is a myth that Indonesia does not need any aid from other countries. Sukarno reliant on Soviet and communist countries and Suharto close ties with US are evident of the country need of building relationship, including receiving aids from other countries

Don't worry about PTBI. His real name is Pranay, and he's a sissy. He would rather live in a third world hellhole like Indonesia over an advanced capitalist country like Australia. Of course he wants Australia given back to the aborigines. Makes it so much easier for Indonesia to take over Australia with only the Aborigines around.