A QUESTION FOR THE FORUM:

Before 350 BCE does the OT place any NT style emphasis on immortality / after life?

BD,

On keeping up superstitious practice: In Russia, I have seen people lining-up to kiss icons. The Orthdox Church seeming quite happy to allow this practice. In the 1970s, I recall Catholic Brothers preaching about the Shroud of Turin. After its Carbon-14 dating, that same church claimed it knew the Shroud was a fake, since the medieval times and therfore was not in error. A deceptive sales force?

GOD FACTORIES (Please above)

Sells and all, about god factories,

Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church correct in taking Sun-day, as the Sabboth? The Catholics, CEs, Methodists, Baptists, Presbytian and Uniting church product models, accept Sun-day (Mithras). The early Christians are said to have resisted worshiping "their god" in pantheon temples (The Romans DID try to accommodate them.]; yet, most Christian denominations worship according to a Mitharian calendar.

Sells, one can't argue these practises are just traditions. In Rome, it was okay to worship YOUR god in the (polythiestic) pantheon. The Christians did not. This is a major reason why the Christians were targeted, not because of the their beliefs but because of their behaviour, especially under Nero. (They also copped the blame for the fire of Alexandria)

Sells: Is it a sin to worship in a polythiest temple, but not a sin to workship on a polytheistic day of devotion (having knowledge to the true history of day/date)? Perhaps, making your your demoninational God (product) model exist in sin? ... A god factory defect product?

All, re: previous:

I found this:

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2). However, the OT seems to refer to restoration of the past and punishment (restored Earth?), rather than substitutionary sacrafice and heaven (NT)?

... Trying to tease out the Eygptian influence on, "How do the first two Christian gods exist?" (First, Abraham's: Second: Moses')(a) vis~a~visa Egyptian theology and Cb) visa~a~visa the third Christrian God (Godhead, the Trinity).

Herein, the afterlife is at the very centre of Egyptian and NT belief/instruction. Weigh the heart before the afterworld. Is the Eygptian construct closer to the NT posit of an afterlife, than the OT version?

Does the locus of the OT lean more towards reward and punishment in the here and now (and restoration); while, the NT (post-Alexandrian god factory)and Eygptian theologies lean more towards preparation for the afterlife?

Oliver,

I'm sure other posters are better qualified to answer your OT/Afterlife question. I'm happy to do research and offer my insights later if no-one else feels inclined to.

To your superstition comment. Let me preface by reaffirming my distrust/disgust of churches and 'organised' religion owing to my belief that the heirarchy's of both (or just the most elite) have other interests at heart, above any proclaimed belief in following a 'Divine' Plan that most christians might normally understand by that term.

Accordingly, the duplicity concerning the Shroud, i feel, is just one of many deceptions Christian Elite dupe their flocks by. The Vatican library has much information going back millenia that is never to be 'freely' revealed to the populace for fear of upsetting their applecart. The Shroud was a useful device for reinforcing belief in previous centuries. I find it no surprise that once science revealed it's true nature the church would acknowledge it rather than continuing to insist it was genuinely Christ's burial cloth. 'Lower' christians can be mistaken and forgiven but the Pope, being infallible, couldn't continue to allow people to believe he thought it genuine when it was shown otherwise else his 'nakedness' be revealed to all.

As for icon worship. I believe the second commandment (Sells's first) forbids it - no graven image or likeness shall be made of the things in Heaven (Saints), nor on Earth, nor in the waters under the Earth. It bemuses me why so many orthodoxy's permit this, even in God's house?

An even more ludicrous example of this was made evident recently:

An epileptic climbed a 45ft high statue of Jesus in Colombia to pray for Jesus's help in curing him.

On his way back down he slipped and took a 40ft shortcut and broke several bones on the concrete below.

Many of the massive devout christian crowd around the statue rushed to his aid and helped him to hospital. NOT ONE of that same crowd bothered to point out to him before he climbed up that it was blasphemy to mount a graven image of a

cont.

thing in heaven or that Matthew Chapter 6 quotes Jesus on the right way to pray and what this man did was therefore doubly against the God he was trying incorrectly to pray to. All those christian believers and no-one seemed to know the right and wrong way to pray and so prevent one of their bretheren from breaking both God's commandment and Jesus direct instruction, and a number of his own limbs in the attempt. There were ample numbers there to stop the guy from climbing up... I'm betting most cheered him on. What do christians know about Christ? Who teaches them?

Who's side are the teachers really on?

As for the Sabbath, there is no doubt. The Jewish calendrical year is currently 5767, that's over five and a half millenia's worth of Sunday's to Saturdays without a break (not since year 1 AD anyway) The Jewish Sabbath weekday commences sundown Friday and ends sundown Saturday. This is 'The Seventh Day' and is why the SDA do no work on Saturday, the Holy day of rest.

So why do most Christians consider Sunday the Holy day?

Because the Holy Roman Church of Christ in order to distinguish itself from Jewish religious practice and to claim 'superiority' of Christ over the Jewish God who commanded we do no work on the 'seventh' day of the week, determined that Christians should place Christ first and foremost and should worship Him on the First Day of the week: Sunday!

I have performed a detailed calculation based upon the exact lunar revolution of the earth and determined the day that 01/01/01, the first day of the AD Julian calendar of Rome, fell on and confirmed this with the passover festival of 34 AD when Christ was supposed to be on the cross (a 'Good' Friday - our Easter) taking into account the 11 days 'lost' when Gregory had the calendar adjusted to it's present format and surprise, surprise... the VERY First Day of the first Millenia AD was on a....

Sunday! The first day of the week!

Mere Coincidence? Not a chance!

BD,

THanks for your interesting comments. More later.

Carried down from earlier post. Please read first. (might be missed, because of other largish posts):

"Especially given just about even story and theme in the OT and the NT is espoused by other religions built by priestly manufacturers in god factories; saying the Christian godhead is true and every other god false, is equivalent to saying, all the elements (read mythologies) are true, except of Zinc (read Christianity)?"

"Christianity. Why is it special? Why would a REAL god NOT differentiate Its product? Why embark on a supreme endeavour, in the guise of a mythology?"

Sells and All,

Would appreciate a few comments/insights on this matter. Thanks.

Sells,

Thank you again for providing such an interesting title, which I guess many contributors find as worthy of comment as the body of the article. The idea of how God is assembled is more readily managed than the old qustion, "Does God Exist?". Intended or otherwise, you alowed us to dissect god(s) and see things more clearly. Good work.

Set-up: An "A".

I do hope you just don't ignore the questions posed of you, before you write another articles. This job isn't finished until contribute to the discussion YOU initiated by answering outstanding questions posed to you. Recall please, this a forum for debate, not a congregation. If you move a proposition you need to speak to the motion and defend critic.

Folow through: A "D".

I feel you still need to engage the forum more fully, please. Appreciate the Forum isn't a day job, but, feel you should not leave this topic for another, yet. The patient is open. Please don't abandon the operating theatre. Answer the outstanding questions.