Continuing on Benjamin,
Just because I say I am Greek-Australian does not mean I am ashamed of being Australian.
I can only explain it like this, when I go to Greece and visit my family there and hear about my history, when I work for my father and I hear old Greek patients speaking in Greek, when I hear Greek music on the radio, when I go to my Greek church and see the religious traditions that have been performed for thousands of years, something inside me connects and says yes that is a part of me.

And when you see other Greek-Australians who feel the same way, it is really special to be able to share that feeling. BUT I am also equally Australian, proud of what my grandfather did for this country, proud to be an Australian in this world and when I look out the plane window and see Sydney Harbour I sigh with relief and know that I’m home, in my “REAL home”.

So yes, I AM a proud young Greek-Australian and I am sorry that you truly do not know the wonderful feeling that it is to be proudly part of two cultures
AND
I am TRULY Australian as are all my educated friends from school and uni, born here and abroad, from all different backgrounds including “white European”, Korean, Chinese, Indian, Lebanese, Italian, Greek, Serbian, Armenian, Kurdish, Turkish, Portugese, French, German, Persian, Assyrian, Jamacian-Scottish even!

We see ourselves, the future of Australia, and we are proudly truly 100% Australian and we are just as proud of our cultural heritage and we do not think that is mutually exclusive!

If thats what you call an embarrassed sense of Greek nationalism, then fine I am an embarrasing Greek Nationalist and proud of it! But its not only white European Australians who view Australia as their true home, the rest of us do too.

Dear Sof84
I read your posts, seemed to be mainly directed at Ben, but I noticed some material relating to something I've said a fair bit about in other threads/posts.

The term 'Greek Australian' (or..any 'Ethnicity'-Australian).

The impression I gain from your quite passionate posts, is that you truly feel 'aussie'. I don't know why you even need to mention your ethnic background. You are 'bi-racial' anyway.. 'White(presumably anglo)+Greek. So, why not simply describe yourself as an Aussie of Anglo/greek ancestry ?
I hope this does not seem pedantic, but you're certainly not 'Greek' as you mum is 'White' (and could be a mix herself like me Anglo/Scot).
Sure, you identify with your hard working forebears and are proud of their achievements. But if I can say...thats not due to them being 'Greek' its due to them as 'people' appreciating the wonderful opportunity provided by Australia and thus giving their best for the future. If we suggest that the things we are proud of are 'ethnically related'... we are pretty close to racist, (in the most benign,unoffensive way) by considering our specific ethnicity as the source of our achievement.

When it comes to achievement, ethnicity is not a factor. Culture certainly can be, and in the interests of reducing racial/ethnic competitiveness, its better to refer to culture than race. Perhaps thats your intent ? But best of all, is referring to our nationality first,rather than ethnicity. I'm Australian....of such and such background) (If people ask)
As a greek bloke I chatted with last Monday said "My children will be more Aussie than me.. and theirs more again".

In the long run...does it matter what our ethnic heritage is ?
Let the oldies enjoy their lives without pressure sure...but lets all work toward an 'ethnicity free' Austalian identity :)

Sof84 and Boaz

On the 28th of October I was listening to a Greek-Australian old timer telling a goup of us how proud he was that Greece on that day (Oct 28) at the outbreak of WW2 told the Musilini fascist mob a definte "no" - that Greece would not fight with them but against the Nazis. As a Greek he fought for our freedom and the freedom he and his family now enjoy as Greek Australians.

We have no right to deny Australians from Greece their proud heritage. Also, for instance, do we have a right to deny immigrants from a nation whose philosphers have contributed so much to our culture? Indeed, didn't we base our ideals of democracy on the ancient Greeks' thinking? Yes we have. Greek Australian is fine by me.

Greek Australian is a term that is only a little about ethnicity and a lot about history. I felt privileged and humbled as this fellow exchanged stories with another old mate. Sof 84 you have much to be proud of as a Greek Australian and those that made the decision to allow immigration made a wise choice that has in the long run enriched Australia's heritage.

Boaz David I checked out Judges 20:21 and I can't find the quote in my King James. ? Listen mate if you find the quote can you let me know further up the line.

Hi Boaz ,

Thank you for your comments.
I can see the point you are making in saying that by being proud of my family’s achievements and by attributing it to their race means in a sense I am being racist.
I think I did not entirely express myself how I wanted. I was probably a bit over-passionate as I was offended by the way Benjamin referred to Greek-Australians.

You are correct in that I am proud of my family’s achievements and this is not due to their ‘race’ but because of their achievements standing on their own as wonderful achievements. I agree with you that their achievements are not necessarily due to their ‘race’ and we should not view things in this way.

What I meant was, stemming from this feeling of, “proudness”, I guess I also call myself Greek as well as Australian to honour my grandparents and my father’s heritage, and to honour the Greek part of me as well as the Australian. This stems from, in part, being proud of them and who they are and what they have done. Honouring family and culture is a very important part of being Greek and not to acknowledge it would go against this and how I have been raised.

I think that maybe, Australians (or at least a big majority) who call themselves say Greek-Australian, Italian-Australian etc, are not so much attempting to be divisive or saying it because feel that their own culture is superior, but rather it is said in the sense of honouring that part of themself, of their identity and that is why their ethnic heritage matters to them and their sense of self.

Its not that I walk around saying I AM GREEK AUSTRALIAN EVERYONE and shove it down people’s throats, I have a very Greek sounding name, so often people either assume I am or ask me and even when I start off saying, I am Australian, they ALWAYS say, no but where are you from.. So I end up having to explain and say Greek-Australian rather than just Australian.

I also understand how you would think that I am not Greek, in your definition of being Greek, as you think of it as a matter of bloodline. Technically I am a dual citizen of Greece and Australia, with dual nationality and a Greek passport, christened Greek Orthodox so in Greece, I am considered Greek. It is a traditional culture also in the sense that as it is my dad and I have a Greek surname they definitely consider me Greek and try to marry me off to their sons or grandsons he he : ) .

But, seriously, I think considering yourself Greek (or anything) is more than simply what bloodline you have and as I have been brought up all my life observing Greek and Greek Orthodox traditions, and I speak Greek, I feel Greek inside at the same time as feeling Australian.
Even though my fathers blood is not ‘Australian’ he lives and breaths Aussie culture and so he feels Australian even though he technically is not (is only a permanent resident).

Your Greek friend is right, his kids WILL be more Aussie, as all my full blooded Greek cousins can show, but it does not mean they deny that part of themselves. They are all Aussie but still feel Greek as well, some have married Anglo-Australians, some Greek/Italian-Australians and so their children acknowledge their own mixed ancestral history just as do I.
Hmm tough : )

Interestingly, I have a friend who is an adopted child to a Greek mother and father who came to Australia when they were young like my father. She is technically, of Anglo-Australian blood. Yet she has been brought up with Greek culture, speaks fluent Greek, practises Greek Orthodoxy, has Greek relatives etc
I think of her as Greek-Australian…

Thank you also to ronniepeters for your lovely comments about Greek culture it makes me really genuinely happy to see other people appreciate the special things about Greeks that I do, and I hope Benjamin will learn to also.
Sorry to divert the discussion, just had to say my bit.

Dear Sof and Ronnie

The ref is Judges 21:25 sorry about that.. *I was wrong* :)

But Sof.. in regard to your 'Greekishness'.. please read the 24th verse of that reference. I'd be interested if it strikes you in a kind of negative way about 'MultiCulturalism' specially considering the bigger context and the statement in v 25.
To see the full background to this... and the moral deterioration of the community which led them to this point, you should read Chapter 19 right to the end.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=7&chapter=19&version=31

I'd love to get your feedback on this because it touches on some rather sensitive socio/political/religious cultural and legal points.
There is also the fact that this is historical narrative rather than divine commandment. (an important point)

But clearly, the Benjaminites as a 'separate' community had different ideas about culpability. Community solidarity caused them to protect the vile rapists, because 'They were Benjaminites' The end of this tragic episode in human history is found in those last 2 verses.
Ch 21:24-25. They hang there... lingering...for us to ponder.

But back to Sof

I don't think anyone wants to deny anyones heritage. But glorying in ones ethnic or cultural 'achievements' is... well.. don't you think its tiny bit like "We are better than you mob"? :)
Isn't it better to regard them as 'human' achievements ? rather than 'racial' ones ? We should equally be able to rejoice at an Italians or a Jews, or an indigenous persons achievements and contributions to human understanding no ?

I don't think the invention of TV by my ethnic forebear John Logie Baird was something to say "Oh Look..we 'Scots' did ...
But Sof.. here is the REAL test :) Was Alexander the Great 'Greek' or Macedonian ? :) wooooooo