Nice puff piece Andrew. How 'bout you take your morning dose of truth syrup.

I suggest you track down Pru Goward. One of her recent statement was along the lines that women wearing high heels are in similar bondage as women wearing burkhas. This kind of thinking fits well with Democrat philosophy. Good to see Natasha allowing her motherly instincts to come out.

"The Australian" editorial this morning nicely sums up the Democrats.

Really Andrew - your tedious clinging to "principles" of the democrats was exploded by Meg Lees - hanging on only means youdivide the anti major party vote - The Dems are dead - if you have principles quit and join Bob Brown

"The Democrats will provide the only non-partisan, non-aligned option at the next election"

a non-partisan political party?

Hey Runner, I suggest you track down Pru Goward and ask her which Party she's been preselected for in the forthcoming NSW election (hint - while you're at it, ask her about her husband's relationship with John Howard). You can't pin Goward's views (accurately reported by you or not) on the Democrats.

One further suggestion, if you are genuinely interested in policy positions as against blind assertion, why don't you ask the Democrats what their gender equity policy is?

So Andrew, with the federal election coming up next year, what's the Democrats' updated version of "Keep the bastards honest!" to be?

Andrew.

If the "gang of four" had not ruined your party years ago you may have a chance.

I will be voting for you because you are a decent bloke, but your parties woes are entirely of their own making.

Frankgol

I am not sure what Pru's husbands friendship with Mr Howard has to do with anything. I would imagine Mr Howard has friendship with people from many walks of life. Pru herself has always displayed feminist anti Christian views which are consistent with Democrats policy. When the democrats had 40000 respondents to their recent poll on the separation of church and state the results were not published because it did not fit with their philosophy. They claim the poll was hijacked. If it was hijacked by homosexuals and/or feminazis they would have used the information to justify their bigotted unchristian stand.

I realised all along that Pru is unlikely to change from the liberals to democrats despite her core values as I read them being very much in line with the Democrats.

Andrew, it is stupid to say that the Greens are allied to the ALP. Ask anyone in the NSW ALP.

The Cross City Tunnel corruption, for example, was exposed by the Greens. A slap in the face for the NSW ALP.

The southern NSW and Tasmanian ALP oppose the Greens more than they oppose the Liberal Party, espicially over woodchipping. The Queensland ALP is most animated in their opposition to the Greens Party.

The Democrats ended its "keep the bastards honest" credibility after the Gang of four ratted, lied, cheeted, and betrayed their own voters. You had some very ugly infighting in your ranks. You really are a bore and you really are a disappointment.

We can thank Cheryl Kernot for showing the first signs of a rat party. I mean, the Dems were started by a Liberal, after all. She opportunistically jumped over to the ALP, foolishly thinking that their supporters would trust such a rat. Well that didn't work for long.

Then along came Meg Lees. What a leader. The first industrial relations victory for the Liberals was thanks to Meg Lees and the Democrats. Then there was GST. It wouldn't have gone through without the Democrats. In fact, the Democrats are the best thing that ever happened for the Liberal Party. It was really an Independent wet faction of the Liberal Party all along. And you demonstrated that well on your track record too.

In Victoria, you actually gave preferences to Australia First Party over the Greens. Did the Democrats prefer an ultra right wing party over their rival? Surely not! Or was this just dishonest politics? Bingo!

You ask us to trust you after behaving so disgracefully. You insist that your party is honest and "non partisan". You claim that the legitimacy of the Senate depends on the Democrats. That is downright patronising to the Australian system exposing nothing but your quasi-liberal arrogance. If you respected the Parliament so much, Andrew, then why do you go there drunk harrasing the women?

Good Night, and Good Bye

Runner – in your response to an article about the Democrats you referred to Pru Goward. “One of her recent statement was along the lines that women wearing high heels are in similar bondage as women wearing burkhas. This kind of thinking fits well with Democrat philosophy.”

Later you claimed that “Pru herself has always displayed feminist anti Christian views which are consistent with Democrats policy”. The fact is that Pru Goward and her husband, David Barnett, have no affiliation with the Democrats. They are true-blue Liberals, personally close to the PM - even commissioned to write an authorised biography (John Howard, Prime Minister, Viking, 1997). Barnett had previously been media adviser to PM Fraser (before Fraser was disowned by the Libs). You may be aware that controversial remarks by Barnett about Indigenous mothers are currently before the Human Rights & Equal Opportunity Commission (HREOC).

Curiously, Goward is a Commissioner still despite having recently been selected to stand for the safe Liberal seat of Goulburn at the next NSW election. (Having lost to an earlier preselection contest, she was personally backed by the PM.)

Perhaps you don’t know that Goward was appointed in 1997 (despite her inexperience and lack of a relevant track record) as head of the Office of the Status of Women in the Department of PM and Cabinet (a position she held until 1999). In 2001, the PM appointed her as Sex Discrimination Commissioner at HREOC and extended her tenure for a further three years in July 2006.

Goward also spent 19 years with ABC TV and Radio as a current affairs journalist, political reporter and commentator. Interviewed on the ABC by Julia Baird 22 October 2006, she said“…the ABC is a bit like the Liberal Party, it's a broad church. Plenty of people in it didn't care, plenty of other people judged me entirely on my merit, plenty of other people were actually Liberals themselves…” She still felt, however, that she was sacked because of her Liberal views.

I’ll come to your high heels and burka comments in the next post.

I agree with the almost universal analysis of the Democrats demise through their leadership and GST shananigans.

However Andrew Bartlett is the only federal parliamentarian that is doing anything at all about indigenous issues. Even the Greens, who you would expect would embrace the Aboriginal cause, have displayed their own racism, ignorance and lack of connection to Aboriginal Australia. Bob Brown's campaigning on the Burrup Peninsula has given them a single token issue to display but they have not managed to expand this tokenism into realistic campaigns and policies to actually address Aboriginal Australia.

In Qld (where I live) the Greens failed to raise indigenous issues during the recent state election- not even a media release on a token issue. This is in the context of high tension about the Palm Island death in custody, the campaign to return stolen wages, the abolition of ATSIC and Qld representative bodies, the racist Qld grog laws and the recent massive media saturation about Aboriginal violence.

Bartlett has been the only Qld politician to challenge Bjelke-Beattie on indigenous issues.

The only elected Green in Queensland is the Mayor of Palm Island -endorsed by the party as a Green candidate before she won the election, and greens spokespeople constantly claim they have no Green representatives. - terra Nullius in their own party.

Andrew Bartletts recent speech in parliament about the racism of some environmentalists shows that he is light years ahead of the Greens in his understandings of the relationship between ecology and Aboriginal issues. http://www.andrewbartlett.com/hansard.php?id=111
This perspective is reflected in Barletts work in the senate too, not just a cheap shot at greenies - http://www.andrewbartlett.com/blog/?p=1128

Bartlett is a regular visitor to Qld Aboriginal communities unlike all the other Federal politicians including Greens and the strangely silent Peter Garrett.

Bugger the Democrats but Bartlett is worth saving.

Runner, yesterday you said: “One of her [Pru Goward’s] recent statement was along the lines that women wearing high heels are in similar bondage as women wearing burkhas. This kind of thinking fits well with Democrat philosophy.”

I’ve looked at the transcript of Pru Goward’s interview with Julia Baird (ABC 22 October 06). Baird asked Goward her views on the hijab. The dyed-in-the-wool Liberal (not Democrat) replied: “…I don't find the hijab confronting. I mean, I'd have to admit that the burka is very confronting - its blackness, the net over the eyes. It's hard to know how much of it is religious and how much of it is tribal or, you know, cultural and comes from the communities where it's practised.”

In order to clarify this last point – the difficulty of knowing how much is religious, or tribal or cultural practice - Goward introduced an analogy: “I mean, we wear high heels. We torture our feet. I mean, I can tell you this as a woman of a certain age with terribly painful feet who wished she hadn't. In other words, women all over the world have dress codes that, either willingly or unwilling, they impose upon themselves that are ugly and distorting and unhealthy and it's part of the oppression of women all over the world, I would say, dress codes. And sometimes I worry even about the sexualised dress code that young women practice today as another form of oppression actually.”

It is intellectually dishonest to misrepresent Goward. Even worse when you have her speaking for a political party of which she is not a member.

If you make claims like "Pru herself has always displayed feminist anti Christian views which are consistent with Democrats policy" you have a responsibility to provide the relevant evidence (for both claims - against Goward and against the Democrats). Can you? I suppose it would be too much to ask you to define what you mean by "feminist anti Christian views" that are simultaneously (according to you) held by both the Liberal Pru Goward and the Democrats at large?

I agree with King Canute on reflection: who did what and when.

I regret my bitter statements in my last post about Andrew and getting personal about the parliament incident I mentioned in my last post.

I had one of those days. We are all human I guess.

Andrew does have his good qualities and I respect him for the work that he has done. I remember in a conversation with Chesterfield-Evans once the reason why there was a mix-up in the Victorian preferences in the last Federal Election but I admit I don't fully remember the explanation.

Natasha, Andrew, and Chesterfield-Evans are people I have met and I admit they are some of the good people in our Parliaments.

In reflection, we are all human and Andrew is generally good to have around.

It is sad to see Natasha leave due to illness. I hope she recovers soon.

Good Night, and Good Luck.

Natasha Who

Oh,you mean Natasha Golden-Handshake,for doing nothing,from a party that gave us the GST.Yeah I am sad to see her leave Politics. Who was she again?

While I agree with King Canute that Andrew Bartlett has been an exceptional statsman for aboriginal Australians, I take exception to a bit of your Green bashing.

You elluded to the fact that the mayor of Palm Island, Erykah Kyle, was a member of the Greens. What you negelect to mention is that she aboriginal woman, and a respected member of the Palm Island aboriginal community. The Greens in QLD have been strong on indigenous issues in the past. I personally think that the Greens indigenous policies are very strong (up there with the Dems). Down here in Sydney, the Greens and the Dems have been the only political parties to oppose the Redfern-Waterloo redevelopement, which would see the loss of the block.

Still, I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't campaign on indigenous issues in QLD. Seems quite silly actually.

Chris,
what you say about the Mayor of Palm Island is absolutely correct. This was my point. The Greens have an enourmous political assett here that has been totally ignored, to the point that Juanita Wheeler, the national convenor of the Greens and lead state spokesperson has said several times in media interviews that the Greens have no elected representatives in Qld. Perhaps I did not explain the terra nullius myth comment well, what I meant is the Greens are blind to the Aboriginal people in their own party. They deny their existance - not just in terms of campaigning but their role in the party too including the only elected representative in Queensland, who is a woman, an Aborigine, a mayor, active in internal process and at the centre of the major Qld. Aboriginal issue during the election period -Palm Island, which you would think they would brag about.

The Queensland Greens have never been strong on indigenous issues. A few years ago I was a member of the Greens and I was the national convenor of the Indigenous issues working group. I left the party because I got sick of pushing excrement uphill.

I wrote the draft of the indigenous policy that the Greens went to the recent Qld state election with after being asked to do so by Drew Hutton. However this policy has never manifested as anything except conversations between me and Drew and a spot on the website.

I co-authored this report on Palm Island Housing http://www.kalkadoon.org/index.php/palm-island-housing-report/ which was commissioned by Drew Hutton as policy ground work for the state election. Drew issued a media release to launch the report but the Greens own website did not puublish his media release and put the report up for 3 months after the media release was issued (after lots of whinging) and then it was withdrawn a couple of weeks later when the website was upgraded for the election campaign.

For all Batletts "centrist" foibles, at least he takes the issues seriously.

Nice to bump into you, Saintfletcher.
Thought your summary a reasonable one.
By the way, why is this c--p about Goward being drip-fed into this thread- it is supposed to be about Stott- Despoja. While Stott Despoja was standing up for Australians, all Goward was doing was window-dressing for Howard's obnoxious policies while the shekels roled in! Pity Meg was so thick she couldn't spot what 'Tasha and other thinking people spotted.
It's a sad thing when useful public figures get worn down and retire. Mary Gaudron and Maxine McKew also come to mind. As for "branding", ALL the non-right parties have embraced this assinine form over substance post-mod "spin" stuff, as the country has become americanised. And for some reason the Greens seem to have become scared into silence. Far easier for all to fight amongst themselves over the spoils of defeat, as Don Dunstan once said of a defeated ALP, than sublimate ego to fight for something worthwhile.
So spot-destroyer has got tired and disillusioned and cynical and sold out to go home and play mummy?
Well, I suppose I don't blame her. Nonetheless, she has cut and ran. She must know she would have a well of good will back to draw upon bck here in Adelaide. Surely she would stand a chance if some of the old fight was there, but it seems to have evaporated in the face of too much grapeshot, so like a good gentle-woman she will return to home and hearth as a good wife and mummy.
Which reminds me. She was once an Adelaide Uni student. I can't imagine the English dept there not encouraging a good read of Gilbert and Gubar for a bright student. Pity, looking at the result. She now ironically and perhaps even deservedly returns to that very same Attic she once fought energetically for her freedom from, and was released from.
Without a whimper...

Well stated Andrew! 'tis a shame Natasha has seen fit to pursue family aims, but family must come fist at all times. I'll also miss Andrew Murray's insightful input to the Senatorial process.

As for the Democrats, you are completely correct. Only the electorate can and will decide on the future of the 'honesty' experiment. For mine, it has functioned well and I believe will continue to do so. Power to you, and maintain your energy.

Frankgol

The Democrats have consistently argued the case for abortion on demand, refused to release the results of their recent poll because it did not give them the results they wanted, been strong proponents of Euthenasia and been supporters of gay marriage. They were strong supporters along with other parties of the morning after RU486 killing drug. Do you need any further evidence that the Democrats are against plain biblical principals? Pru would be in line with this humanisitic philosophy on most of these issues. The Democrats seem happy to support minorities but seem threatened by any Christians who want put forth a view that they consider intolerant.

The trouble with the Senator's argument is that it ignores the main problem that the Democrats have, which is that the Left and the Right of the party just can't work together any more.

This goes far beyond the normal hatred and mistrust between political factions inside parties. The Democrat organisations have been ripped apart and the alliance between ex-Liberal voters and ex-Labor voters can't be rebuilt in time to stop next year's wipeout.

The GST wasn't the Democrats' fatal mistake. The problem was crazies from both the Left and Right of the party who wanted everything to go their own way, and who were more interested in victory than peace.

Its hard to be a centrist watchdog and also a pseudo-left activist party at the same time, and the Democrats collapsed under the strain.

That is why, IMAO, the Democrats will elect not one single Senator at next year's election, even if for some reason it is a double dissolution.

Not because Stott-Despoja is retiring, but because the internal structure of the party barely exists any longer.

David Jackmanson
http://www.letstakeover.blogspot.com

What is the pseudo-left?
http://www.lastsuperpower.net/disc/members/568578247191

Couldn't we live perfectly well without money?
http://www.lastsuperpower.net/docs/document.2005-01-21.2592308437

Just what are the Democrats doing towards a better Australia these days. Senator Stott Despoja’s role as a mother should come first and foremost in her life. She does not need to be collecting another income whilst she has a hubby for bread winner. So many of us have had to soldier on alone. I was reading your comment on another post, then checked out your blog, now gone full circle. How I hate bloggers who leave no room for comment on their personal blog!

bluffittome,

If you are referring to my blog, then you can click on the words at the bottom of each story - most of them say '0 comments' right now :(

The words read:

Posted by David J on Thursday, October 12, 2006 0 comments

and the '0 comments' takes you to the comment-entering-bit (sorry about the tech talk there).

If not me, who were you referring to?

I mean bluffitamy, sorry...serves me right for writing comments on the fly.

I know the feeling, my mind had been flitting from place & subjects all day, David Jackmanson,

I had been checking on Andrew Bartlett’s comment elsewhere on the forum, & just copy his name & pasted on browser, to get his official website. I read through a few subjects & came across one where he claimed we could comment, and it led me back to the forum and his piece here on the non-democratic Democrats, you did draw my attention to your comments here, & although I may not understand what you are saying or mean, I defend your right to say your piece.

I also briefly checked out Pru Goward’s at the ‘sex discrimination,’ web site and whilst she could be qualified for the position, I was not impressed with her & hubby being so pally with John Howard. Like, jobs for the girls & boys, you scratch my back, and I will scratch yours.

Most of my day had been taken up with reading a book a friend has loaned me called “Ten Years,” by Roseanne Catt as well as checking archives in 60 minutes & 4 corners to get the news I had missed, on her case. I am quiet annoyed with the NSW Prison Officials coming to Queensland for the “Sisters Inside Conference” & telling us how good they are at rehabilitating these bad women. Yet the book by Roseanne Catt has some damning words to say about the NSW System. Sorry, I cannot say any more, or I will be up for contempt. You will have to buy, borrow or find a copy of the book to learn what I mean.

bluffitamy

It is just Bartletts link to this forum that has no comments, just an ad for this forum I suppose. All his other topics are open. try this link http://www.andrewbartlett.com/blog/

i have no time for the Democrats but Bartlett as an individual has developed the best politicians blog in the country (and the first) where he not only allows a diversity of opinion but also engages in the conversation.

If you are into prison stuff,

I believe he would be very receptive to the issues of Sisters inside, especilly as it may relate to federal issues (such as immigration detainees). he has stepped into Qld. state Aboriginal issues in the absense of any state opposition (not even from the Greens) and I am sure he would do what he could for state prison issues too. i know he has behind the scenes in the past.

dig deep into the past and you will find connections between him and Queensland prison struggles of the 80's through his work with 4ZZZ when they set up the first prisoners program, which was central to bringing on the Kennedy enquiry into prisons.

He wasn't directly involved but the whole ZZZ collective supported what was going on.

dont judge a book by their bookends.

And on another issue,

The Greens only elected representative in Queensland, Erykah Kyle the Mayor of Palm Island has just resigned, which I am sure the Greens will ignore as solidly as they did her existence as a politician.

The last connection of relevence to Aboriginal issues in Qld. that the Greens had has dissappeared, leaving Bartlett as the only politician anywhere to at least have done the groundwork and consultation with Aboriginal Australia and develop relationships to even be able to talk publically about Aboriginal issues with any integrity.

I am not happy that this role has been left to such a wishy washy politician as a Democrat, but that is the sad truth of the matter.

Anyone who gives a damn about Aborigines in Queensland should vote 1 for Bartlett in the election. If he is replaced by a Green or Family First that last constructive link between politicians and Aboriginal Qld. is broken.