Col Selling public assets – with most of them being bought by aussie institutions, they remain in the private hands of the public, through their superannuation and mutual funds.

When the once public entity needs to expand or recapitalise, it can do so under the strict conditions of an arms length relationship and documented proposal with the investor, instead of just stiffing the tax payer who gets no opportunity or input to scrutinise the quality of the decisions behind what his taxes are being spent on.

I said before, public transport is not a public safety issue and comparison to police or hospitals etc. is stupid.
Public transport is not comparable to schooling either.

“capitalism alone cannot provide in a fair and equitable manner?”

The provision of commercial services by government is not intended to be “fair and equitable” it is an issue of political philosophy, should the state provide sheltered workshops or should people be self reliant.

I have and always will be for self reliance, it is the best way for people to develop, with dignity, instead of scurrying around looking for a nanny state to wipe their butts.

“In third world countries, where women..” making this a self-righteous gender issue is not going to help.

“The real ‘future eaters’..”

The company I founded produces products which reduce waste in the food industry. My personal efforts (in developing these products) has resulted in significant improvements in efficiency and waste reduction.
You suggest I am a “future eater” I would say -
my contribution to the “future”, when considering the waste which I help others avoid, is significantly better than someone who comes here to mince around, pretending to be concerned with the “future” but simply criticises others out of gross ignorance and spite.

I am a “future feeder”. From your posts I would judge you do not a clue about how to innovate, develop or effectively contribute to anything, just like all indolent and precocious lefties who are driven by envy and small mindedness.

Previous post should be to Celivia

Billie “Col_Rouge there is considerable debate about whether the Cain_Kirner government was driving Victoria into bankruptcy.”

Really – who is debating it?

As a point of interest now, as we go to the next state election is the perfect time to remind everyone of how the State Bank of Victoria was sold to CBA to cover the deficit which Kirner/Jolly’s incompetence produced.

I recall the comments of the day – “What is the capital of Victoria?”

About 50 cents

Kirner and Co, with the aid of the Federal Government of the day, turned Victoria into the “Rust Bucket State”.

MMWB, you are completely wrong about the “tunnel”, it was built by Transfield, a company staffed extensively by ex MMBW employees. They cut their teeth (so to speak), on the western sewer project between the City and Hoppers Crossing / Werribee and then moved on to the City Link Project.

Regarding Rail versus cars, whilst public transport receives grants from government, it cannot be said, by definition, that users pay for all capital improvements. Funding for capital in “real businesses” is provided by sale of part of the ownership, taking on interest bearing debt, debenture, bank loans etc. or by retained earnings. Public transport operaters are so incompetent, they do not generate earnings, let alone “retain” them.

The amount of fuel excise and taxes which motorists pay significantly exceeds the amount paid on road construction and maintenance.

Billie, your sources are suspect, to say the least.

I would further suggest you go visit http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/CA256F310024B628/0/7B140AC973D91D89CA2570D90016ADB6/$File/Corporate+Plan+Low+Res.pdf

Check out who produces the green house gas emissions and how the performance of cars has improved their emissions qualities over time.

I was actually looking for a little known fact, that of

How much dividend the state government is stripping from the metropolitan water companies to put into general funds, instead of putting it into water infrastructure, which all the metropolitan users have been paying for. It was running in the hundred of millions per year a few years ago.

Remember the Scoreby Freeway which, thanks to Bracks isn't

Col

At least we now know that you founded a company. I have founded a business too. It markets control gear for industry. For your efforts in forming a company I respect you as I would expect you to respect me. Then why your superior attitude?

And your language is so coloured. For example.

"The provision of commercial services by government is not intended to be “fair and equitable” it is an issue of political philosophy, should the state provide sheltered workshops or should people be self reliant. "

Your use of the highly coloured term sheltered workshop expresses your view that a state enterprise is less effective than a private one. For your information I first heard that term when I was working with a private company. I have worked in both state and private enterprises and the difference is largely one of scale. Large private companies are like government ones. Once the shareholding is with finance and super funds middle management acts only in it's own interest and the upper management is unable to understand what middle management or the shop floor are doing. Particularly when directors are mainly from the finance sector and haven't a clue how the company really works.

And much of what we use and buy can only be provided by large enterprises. Some public businesses such as the Swiss or French railways in my extensive experience produce a product vastly superior than that their private eqivalents. There is no clear rule and this you would realise if you were more objective and less ideological in your thinking.

When it comes to public transport it is clear from Australian and US experience that the public do not act in an environmentally favourable way. You are fond of choice, what if the environment fails? What choice would individuals have if their home is flooded by rising sea levels? Your like me have experience in business but I am sensible enough to value the opinion of those with experience in the study and observations on climate. Perhaps that comes from my engineering background.

I agree with Logic in his previous post. Not just targetting Col Rouge on this, but the debate on this site would be better if we could step back from ideology and discuss each issue on its merits. That shouldn't be too much to ask for

Col,
I want to start by saying that it’s a credit to you that you have found a solution to reduce waste. Not everybody is able to make such big contribution. (What kind of waste does it reduce, I am genuinely interested).
But the fact that you were successful in finding a solution to an environmental problem doesn’t mean that other people cannot express their concerns and opinions about the environment, or that you can ignore the fact that cars are pollutive.

I think that we all care about the environment but have different angles of looking at things and solutions. We all have the best intentions though, and I am not so stuck in my opinions that I don’t have space for other points of view.
But for me, the most important thing should be to save the environment and not to fatten up private corporations.

In my opinion it would be a great contribution to our environment if we would support a well-functional, low-cost rail system that we all can enjoy not only because it will reduce car emissions but also because of the oil shortage problem which will only become bigger the more oil we use..

Logic makes this comment: “You are fond of choice, what if the environment fails?”
Think about it, Col, we simply need to do something or else our future generation will be stuck with an environment that is beyond repair. How much choice will our kids and grandkids have?
Is it really so bad to travel around, whenever we can, by good, much improved, public transport instead of by car if we take into account the burden we take off our kids and grandkids? Imagine having a great rail system ready and waiting for them. http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1940383,00.html

What is good about keeping all these cars on the roads- and the number of cars is always increasing as well.

continued

From ABS:
“Since the 1950s the number of private cars has risen dramatically, and continues to do so. In 2003 there were 10.4 million registered cars and station wagons... This dramatic rise in private car ownership has been accompanied by a corresponding shift away from the use of urban public transport.”
Does this not worry you, knowing that the average Australian car emits 4 to 5 tonnes of CO2 per year?

OK I know that you are not in favour of Public Transport, I suppose I’ll have to accept that; but how do you suggest we get emissions down?
The fact that you have done a great job in the waste sector doesn’t mean you should not worry about other aspects of environmental calamities.
How do you feel about the idea of not taxing cars as they are taxed today but taxing vehicles according to their emissions so that people who ‘must’ drive a car are being rewarded for choosing a greener car- one that is low in producing toxic emissions?

“who are driven by envy and small mindedness."- what does 'envy and small mindedness' have to do with creating a sustainable future?
My inquiring minds wants to know!

“Public transport is not comparable to schooling either. “
The point I was trying to make is that Public Transport should be a service provided by the government to the general public, just like the other services; why would the govt only have to provide services that have to do with safety?
If I had to, I could reason and ask you whether a great functioning, very low-cost rail system would attract many more people, leading to less traffic on the roads, leading to less (fatal) car accidents, meaning less pollution, less smog, leading to a cleaner environment and healthier people.
We then have a safer environment and Public Transport would be a safety issue and reason for the govt to be involved with public transport.

The final fact that tin-pot uber-capitalists conveniently overlook is that it is the ENVIRONMENT which sustains humanity NOT the ECONOMY!