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The Forum > Article Comments > Queensland police 'move-on' powers are over the top > Comments

Queensland police 'move-on' powers are over the top : Comments

By Nick Christie, published 1/11/2006

Your right to free use of public spaces is not as clear and unmitigated as it once was.

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People who see something sinister in loitering laws in Australia have a big problem.

The recent "poor me" story on one of the bleeding heart so-called current affairs TV programmes clearly showed that the stroppy 65 year old pensioner and dosser arrested was asked by police officers to move on "Sir". He chose to argue with them, in a loud aggressive voice, and was arrested, struggling. The humbug about 4 officers needing to do the job is easily explained by the fact that that the arrested person is less likely to suffer injury with an officer to each limb, even then.

Anyone who is stupid and arrogant enough to ignore a simple, lawful, request from a police officer in the most democratic, easy going country in the world, deserves to take the consequences of their stupidity - and the consequences will be very light, even then.
Posted by Leigh, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 9:26:13 AM
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Abuse of police powers? In Queensland? Surely not.
Posted by Sancho, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 9:47:43 AM
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Leigh, If you were to say that to me in the street I'd feel very alarmed. I'd call the police and have you 'moved on', with force if necessary.
Posted by PeterJH, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 10:04:28 AM
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I couldn't agree with this article more.

Earlier this year I had a delightful encounter with a typically well educated, socially adjusted, dedicated and well trained Officer of the Queensland Police force (or should I say SS guard) - an organisation that is clearly the most professional, racially tollerant and well loved organisation in the state...

A charge of public nuisance was brought against me (along with abuse, assault and systemic gross misconduct) for simply walking down the street in the wee hours after not being able to find a taxi.

But lets not kid ourselves people - Queensland: Free and Democtratic? You are having a laugh aren't you?

Queensland Uber Nanny-Police State is the correct description. This is a state where simply attending a night club involves walking a tunnel of riot police with sniffer dogs and being subjected to invasive public strip searching with out arrest.

Beautiful one day perfect the next.
Posted by Daniel06, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 10:31:47 AM
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Lets not be too precious though about the rights of perpetrators while telling other law abiding citizens that they should be more accommodating, develop a thick skin, make some allowances for (alleged) 'victims of society and so on.

Times have changed; my mother has lived on the Gold Coast for years and has witnessed the ongoing fight by police to maintain law and order. It was once a family destination. Having a background as a director of nursing in a major hospital, she is fit and assertive, however over the years she has had to cross routes and destinations off her list due to increasing danger of humiliation and assault.

In the latest incident her car was rocked, dented and spat upon by cowardly thugs who took offence when she briefly beeped her horn, worried that one of them, having drunkenly staggered onto the road, was unaware the car was there.

In Brisbane CBD there are hang-outs for young (and not so young) thugs, for example outside City Hall or on Elizabeth Street between George and Albert Streets, where students and young people are regularly blocked, insulted and coerced. Accommodation centres routinely warn visitors not to stray near the Botanic Gardens when the sun sets. Many mornings, blood splatters and vomit are evident on the walkway through St Stephen’s cathedral and nearby night clubs.

Police are people and have loved ones too, yet they have to lay their lives on the line handling situations that get out of hand because they have no power to intervene sooner.

Whilst it is true that we should be concerned about any loss of civil liberties by legislators, the overwhelming source of encroachment to our freedom and liberty is the growing tide of miscreants and thugs who know their way around the law and have free legal aid provided by the long suffering citizens whose rights they abuse.

We should be more concerned about making police feel valued and respected, that way the police force will attract and retain high quality recruits.
Posted by Cornflower, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 10:35:37 AM
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As an elected Councillor I applaud these laws.

Particular issues we had before the original legislation were druggies using our free beachside BBQ's to heat their drugs and leave the plate with drug residue for others to clean up; youth assembling on the beachfront recreational areas and, as the night wore on becomeong loud, abusive to others, and eventually causing damage to public facilities and breaking bottles on the concrete. And many other undesirable and unsavoury activities in public places.

"Move on" powers have helped minimise that to the extent that the problem is almost eliminated, as a regular occurrence although there are spasmodic outbreaks.

Police do not have to sit off in the dark and wait until they see an offence being committed, and then try to identify an offender. The police, of their own initiative can move the people on - before an offence is necessarily committed. Experience has shown that the exercise of these powers has saved a heap of ratepayer's money in minimising repairs to damage and cleaning up.

The extension of the powers to all public places is also welcome.

Previously Council and Police had to negotiate which areas were included in those areas where the "move on" powers were to be available. The problem was that the people for which these powers were appropriate soon learned which areas were not subject to the "move on" powers and moved the problem there. Back to square one! Now they have to keep moving and that is good for the community.

I must say that after many years of these Police powers, not one complaint has been made to Council about inappropriate use of these powers by Police.

There have been complaints that the Police have not acted early enough indicating some level of public support for the provisions.

Well done to the Government in creating such beneficial laws, and well done to the Police for the discrete way they have applied the laws.
Posted by wd, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 10:47:59 AM
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It seems to me that in our increasingly violent and disrespectful times the police need more powers to counter the troublemakers.

Maybe the concerns the auhthor expressed comes down to trust and the police only have themselves to blame for any mistrust the community have in their ability to enforce the law reasonably. The honest police need to distance themselves from the bad eggs instead of tacitly suggesting approval with their silence.

The recent ill treatment of a homeless man, who any fool would know wouldn't have known that the laws have changed to allow police to move people on, is indicative of the unreasonableness of the new law in some situations. Tthe homeless man apparently thought it unreasonable and unlawful for the police to move him on.

Any public complaint against say a homeless man for changing his clothes and showering would be vexatious and unreasonable anyway - how petty. I can understand his reaction.

And what about people who are in a situation where because of poor town planning the public become a nuisance? The town law allows people in situations like this to be nuisances but the state criminalises the same behaviour.

And it seems to me, from my experiences with the police, that the police have become not only the law enforcers but the judge and jury too. Some are quick to lay charges on the poor and naive, but will often refuse to prosecute the wealthy and powerful. In my dealings with the CMC and DPP I have been so mucked about it was criminal in my books. I find it hard trust the police.

I think these move on laws show up a need for the system to be counter-balanced with laws and resources that provide for the proper defence of charges especially petty and unreasonable ones laid by overentusiastic police. They also must provide the DPP with adequate resources so that they can prosecute the real criminals and violent offenders according to the law - rather than financial and time constraints
Posted by ronnie peters, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 10:50:13 AM
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The footage of the arrest, purportedly from a security camera, appeared as a well-rehearsed and practised operation.
The paddy wagon was nicely on the spot to receive the "miscreant".
This was summary justice, too slick and sick. The man was never to be allowed to "move on".

The police Minister showed herself to be unworthy of the position.
Posted by clink, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 11:38:50 AM
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WD,

I have personally put forward a formal complaint against the totally disproportionate use (more like abuse) of this law.

So I can assure you that there is at least one complaint that has been lodged.

As an elected representative in this state you ought to be utterly ashamed of this ludicrous American-style zero tollerance approach to policing which is totally ineffective.

I am a company director, an upstanding member of the community and a totally law abiding citizen. I find the current over-policing in this state particularly disturbing.

I have been subjected not only to gross incompetence and agression from a Queensland police officer but also a totally unlawful strip search, in public, at the hands of a Police officer in riot gear for simply queing out the front of a night club - absolutely no drugs were found. Hundreds of incocent people were also subjected to this unlawful, agressive and disturbing abuse without arrest or charge.

This is a gross violation of civil liberties and for you to condone it shows a disturbing lack of understanding of civil rights.

These laws show how backwards this state and its 'elected leaders' really are.
Posted by Daniel06, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 12:00:22 PM
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Daniel 06

I am not surprised there are drug searches outside night clubs, after all that is where drugs are transported, sold and consumed. Drug use is supposed to be prevalent among the young well-to-do so it would make sense to raid night club patrons.

There have been many complaints from people, especially women, about drug offences in clubs.

If you talk to janitors and security staff in Brisbane's cbd they will tell you about the knives, knuckle dusters and drugs deposited in the landscaping of buildings near to night clubs. drugged and drunken patrons often forget to pick up their wares before wending their way home in the early dawn.

Maybe in your case a sniffer dog detected that you recently came into contact with drugs. Probably you were unaware of that contact. Reportedly, other night club patrons were lucky enough to be tipped off by mobile about possible raids and ditched their stuff. They would have had a laugh at the dumb coppers, heh?

What about saving some righteous anger for the drug dealers and users? After all, it was their illicit drug trade that resulted in your inconvenience and embarrassment. The clubs could be deriving some benefit from the trade too.

The community has demanded stronger action on drugs because of the increasing damage to people, especially youth. It is a democracy and elected State and local government representatives are just doing the will of the people in making regulations to better enforce the law.
Posted by Cornflower, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 1:20:28 PM
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Its funny how the same old people go on about the police needing "tougher" powers in a more "dangerous" age.

Crime is at an all time low. It has fallen throughout Australia on average for just about everything except for the minor and new types of crime(Cyber crime, Grifitti etc.). Murder, Assault, Robberies etc. all down. But yet our laws and powers keep getting tougher and tougher.
Posted by Bobalot, Thursday, 2 November 2006 8:41:15 AM
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As usual, governments continue to scare the buggery out of people to introduce laws that will only be abused by power hungry governments. Police do need 'move on' laws but it does need balance which is the opposite of what pollies crave for.

My reading of this article is that as a person who plays a djembe(west african drum) at the local garden, along the river and the botanical gardens, I could be charged and face court for what was once a free act.

There are problems but as usual, politician's want to move on homeless people, most of them put there by the greedy negligence of the liberalists governments or the ALP and the Coalition. Instead of having 'fair go' policies, they continue to throw people on the streets in their lust of owning everything.

Democracy is a farce. Freedom is a farce. Our bloodline died for nothing.
Posted by Spider, Friday, 3 November 2006 8:22:15 PM
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Leigh,

L-A-W-F-U-L,lawful. In one period in Ancient Rome, under the patria potestas, the Head of a Family could exercise personal dicretion over his family, and, because he brought chikdren into the World that included the power of life and death. Totally lawful, Leigh. In Feudal Briton the Nobelman had the right to have first relations with villager/farmer brides-to-be,before the husband. Totally lawful,Leigh. More recently, Jews were deported to be incinerated. Totally lawful, leigh. You know some people would say in was just the law. But is a just law? Now, that is question. Most Forum resopndents seem concerned. because give the history of Australian Police Forces, it is D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S. Leigh, please go to the Google and type in "Lawerence Kolhberg". Read the description, there. You seem a candidate for a "3" or "4", the blind obedience to justice and law profile. Your opponents are "5s" and "6s", they appraise the law and evaluate potential consequences. It is not a matter intelligence but of psychological make-up. Albert Speer was a brilliant man, whom believed in the law too.

dw,

Councils would love to power from citizens and the States, but like their State to pick on the Bill. You pay for the tar but we will say how you can park on it. The NT government can easily have its autonomy eroded, because of its depedence on Commonwealth funding, The point is all Governments want the toys and not pay for them. Typically, the process involves taking control away from The People.
At the nadir are Councillors, at the apex the PM. All advocating "Power by The People", while taking power from The People. You retort, "No"! But, what if I were to suggest, having within- political term, "citizen 'initiatied in reformenda" to overturn the decisions of elected representatives (your ideas), I bet you would oppose this course? Did you do anything to stop Joh's reign and overlordship. Another, "3" or "4" (please read above).

More...
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 6 November 2006 2:00:01 PM
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Leigh and dw,

Democracy is a fragile thing. It is easily lost. The classic civilizations aside, contrary to popular believe the, US did not have the fully fledged democracy, Iceland did. In the Eleventh Century. The "1s" and "2s" (Kolberg, above), pulled it down, while the "3s" and "4s" did nothing. The Authoritarian State exists to contain its lower levels "by order of jurisdiction" (Wright), where, adherence is inforced by stern boundaries on independent freedom.

Both ancient and mordern histories are struggle to away from the power by the few towards power by the many (The People). In recent decades you and your kind would arrest our liberties. No thin end of wedges for me.
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 6 November 2006 2:18:11 PM
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