Oh Marilyn “where the people are known to have been loaded on at gunpoint by Indonesian police with the help of the AFP. Mick Keelty is now pretending to be ever so respectable but at the time he was running phoney "people smuggling" operations”

Someone accused me of being a liar here recently, the sort of troll who bandies such claims bereft of any evidence of same.

However, Marilyn, I challenge you, as a matter of public duty to bring that claim to court and have it heard so guilt of the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police can be evidenced or at least make the evidence of such claims available to the mainstream Australian Media, The Age will certainly publish anything (which was even half true).

Alternatively I will be obliged to extend to you the brand “LIAR” to be attached to every other utterance you care to make in future.

This is your opportunity Marilyn, prove that what you claim is not a manifestation of your deluded thinking.

I, for one, am certain that such a scurrilous and libellous claims against the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police are a matter of complete fiction and that you, in proclaiming them here are a bare faced LIAR.

Here is your chance, Prove me wrong, prove to us all you are not a low down lying scumbag who is deluded by the extent of your own corruption!

I am stunned by the reaction of some posters on this issue. I now see why Tampa made so little difference to re-electing the Coalition last time.

While Tony's article does seem to have some conspiracy theorist elements to it, I support Wobbles posting. At the end of the day the truth matters and its why we have a liberal democracy not a totalitarian society. If the truth of the matter is above board then why is the Government so reluctant to open its files?

Yes Governments must represent their electorate but they must also lead. Many people want capital punishment, die in prison life sentences and so on but I'm glad governments don't bow to every demand. They need to lead too.

I wonder if those condemning boat people from the Middle East would have had the same attitude to Vietnamese boat people in the 70's. Something to think about after you enjoy your next good Vietnamese meal.

And to Mr Boaz all I can say is WWJD.

For heaven's sake Col Rouge, are you from outer space.

1. Ross Coulthart found Kevin John Ennis, people smuggler, whom the AFP paid $25,000 to set up sting operations from Indonesia. There were others but he was the main one. Mick Keelty is still to answer some 37 questions posed by the Sunday program about this activity and Mick Keelty has never denied it.
2. When called to the senate over and over again Keelty refused to answer any questions and in the end demanded immunity from prosecution.
3. Mick Keelty and the AFP trained several groups of Indonesian police to stop refugee boats, to rip off refugees, to put holes in the bottom of boats - they bragged about it for god's sake.
4. It was the AFP who first alerted the Austalian authorities in Canberra that this boat had left and "was overdue", which is pretty strange for a boat they claimed never existed.

If you want to chide me, to ridicule me and to question my right to tell the truth go right ahead, but it does not take away the truth.

Keelty is the same thug who defends turning in Austrailan's knowing they will be shot and it was the AFP who helped DIMA use phoney passports and Pakistani documents to illegally cancel Afghan refugee visas.

All of this is on the public record and has been for years. I want to know why these innocent people had to die.

Tony,
I am obliged to take you seriously when, as a former diplomat, you characterize the background against which this tragedy occurred in terms of it being an "undeclared war between powerful Indonesian national security elements....and Australian national security agencies determined to stop this plan...". I fear you cause our ship of State to sail very close to the winds of war. There will be many who will read for the two elements which you have named, 'Indonesia' and 'Australia' respectively, and that is something that neither President Yudhyono nor the Prime Minister of this country, let alone the respective peoples at large, need.
In war, as you know, one of the first casualties is truth. Given that war is the background against which you have cast these alleged Australian (in)actions, you call to mind the scene from the bridge of the Compass Rose in the film 'The Cruel Sea', one in which merchant seamen survivors of a sinking were in the water, and beneath them was thought to be a lurking U-boat. The survivors anticipated rescue, but the Compass Rose was a convoy escort corvette. The survivors were all killed by depth-charges dropped on the first pass. They were, of course, innocent civilians. The captain had to make the dreadful decision to fulfil his role at the cost of their lives, in order to possibly prevent the same situation from occurring again to other crews.
The Cruel Sea is a work of fiction. It nevertheless typifies aspects of war at sea that were acknowledged fact-like the case of the sailor from the cruiser who, as his ship was ordered under way from an unfinished rescue of survivors of the Bismarck, leaned right out from the gunwal to pull just one more German sailor on board. He was subsequently charged for leaving his ship without permission.
Injustice abounds. The worst thing that can be done is to in any way facilitate this potentially fatal trade in human misery by giving any encouragment to the desperate to take the risk. This guilt trip risks that.

Hi Marilyn, I thought you might drag out the "you're a bad Christian" card..... There is another side to that abusive coin you know, and it would come back on you.

If I allowed myself to feel compassion for every hard done by individual in this world, I'd be an emotional wreck. I feel for the Christians and animists of Southern Sudan, of Darfur, for the persecuted Christians of Ambon and Sulawisi, for the Aborignals of Melbourne.. of ..of...of...

Bear in mind Marilyn, if I was seeking to immorally enter another country and knew the risks, why should I feel they 'owed' me anything ?
They would owe me squat. If I try to rob a bank, and it so happens I trigger a security device which disables me... I have nothing to offer but that I got caught fair and square.

Marilyn, if I bore the worlds ills I'd be a nervous wreck like you, seething with:
a) Self righteousness
b) rage and hate against anyone disagreeing.

I've yet to see a syllable of 'I might be wrong on that' from you, not a consonant even. Me ? I've apologised on 2 major occasions because I was wrong on fact. I don't speak from 'self' righteousness, but from responsible social policy viewpoint and with the best interests of this country at heart. (whether u agree with that or not)

But anyway, this kind of issue will simply highlight the dividing line between your mob and mine ideologically speaking. I see it as pretty much a waste of time. There are much bigger issues at hand.

Which begs the question DB, what does 'your mob' represent? Christian principle does not feature large in your previous post.