I'm terrified that terrorism is being used as an excuse by politicians to white ant our democratic rights, which, of course, is exactly what the terrorists want.

As I have said before these arent terrorist attacks they are territorial attacks.

. Its over control of a land or country. Its tribal warfare. The American involvement is a side issue.

• Territorial dogfight between Israelies and Arabs in the MIDDLE EAST.
• Territorial fight over control of IRAQ by the Sunnis and the Shiites
• Territorial fight over control of AFGHANISTAN by the Taliban from Pakistan
• Territorial demands for separatist state by the muslim CHECHYNIANS in Russia
• Territorial massacre of one tribe by the other in RWANDA (because they feared the build up of numbers of the other tribe.
• Territorial massacre of the muslims in BOSNIA by the white Serbians
• Territorial massacre of the part Portugese EAST TIMORESE by the Inodensian militia
• Attacks by the Muslims Jindaweed tribe against the Sudanese in SUDAN
• Territorial massacre between two tribes in SOMALIA
• Territorial attacks on the Chinese areas, that drove the Chinese out of the SOLOMONS.
• IRA ( Irish Catholic tribe) wages bloody terrorist (territorial) attacks against the British Protestant Tribe for control of IRELAND
• Territorial massacre of one millions Muslims for control of TURKEY by the Turks
• Territorial massacre of 6millions Jews by the Germans to keep control of GERMANY.
• Territorial attack on AUSTRALIA by the Japanese.
• Territorial disposession of The AMERICAN Indians by the white settlers.
• Territorial dispossession of the ABORIGINES by the white settlers
• Ganghis Khan took every country he could take with his armies
• The Romans took every territory they could, that’s why they like the British were so wealthy.
Judging by history I’d say our chances of a terrorist(territorial) attack is bound to happen if not now then a decade or so down the track.

Carl and Chris

someone here has alertly pointed out something I was not aware of.

September 11 1683 was the date when Islamic Ottoman armies were finally STOPPED at the gates of Vienna.

September 11 2001 was the date when "Islamic Armies of Al Qaeda" started to push back the other way.

Only a Muslim would see the symbolism of this to the point of chossing such a date I believe. One well versed in Islamic history.

I'm looking at starting my own martial arts self defense school :)
But it will be free. Unless I have to charge to simply eat.

I see the of a terrorist attack, as a distinct possibility, BUT... there is a much bigger danger. Any such attack emboldens young dissillusioned Muslim males, and makes them think they CAN change things by being involved in such violence and mayhem, when you add to this volatile ingredient, exposure to propoganda videos of attacks on Allied forces in Iraq, and graphic depictions of 'Muslim martyrs, including women and children, and rant on about the 'inhumane oppression of Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq and Afghanistan, we then have a much more explosive social situation.

It could lead to many little or big 'Cronulla's' a polarization of our society, and utlimately a breakdown of our stability.

BD,

I take your point about the violent propaganda videos, they are indeed disturbing.

Otttoman forces had been forced to retreat from Austria a number of times, around a hundred years before that I believe (sorry I don’t have my history books on me at the moment, but I have studied that period before), there were many significant battles between the Ottomans and the Habsburgs, in Malta, North Africa, Greece, the struggle for supremacy in the Mediterranean went on for decades, you could probably pick any of the 365 dates and there is bound to have been some sort of significant gain or setback for the Islamic cause during this period.

However, if you are into strange coincidences, why is it that you bring this one to our attention, but not others, such as:

Three months before 9/11 NORAD regulations were changed so that authorisation of shooting down hijacked aircraft rests only with the defence secretary, VP or Pres. Previously Commanders could authorise such actions.

Multiple anti-Terrorism drills being conducted on 9/11 left the East Coast of the US unguarded and FAA officials confused as to whether or not the reports they heard of hijacked aircraft were real or simulated.

The US response to 9/11 fits in almost exactly with Cheney’s, Rummy’s and Wolfowitz plan for the Middle East as spelled out in the Project for the New American Century’s document, ‘rebuilding Americas Defenses’

You know that I could go on and on BD, I suggest for a clearer picture you set aside your anti-Islamic prejudices before weighing up this evidence though. Good luck with your martial arts class, it’s a great way to keep fit

While I'm quite prepared to believe a wide variety of allegations against President Bush, and my opinion of him is pretty damn low, I still can't bring myself to believe there was US complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

There are a few basic reasons - the first and foremost being that it isn't really necessary for the US to create their own attacks. The islamic world has been pushed into that quite sufficiently over the past few centuries. Why force it when you wait, these events will come to you?

Secondly - no motive on practical terms.
No motive! I can hear the indignation now. Yes, on the bare surface of it, there are plenty of reasons why an atmosphere of terror has helped the bush campaign. They wouldn't still be in power without it - fair enough.

But on a practical level - Bush has money, he has power. In his day to day life, there is no real reason for him to extend this power. Now you can argue that he's a megalomaniac, intent on increasing his power, but I guess it comes back to a personal belief of mine that nobody is out for power simply for power's sake. They may do it for how power makes them feel, or power allows them to pursue another agenda.
I think Bush is at the stage where additional power won't really make him feel much different, and while he may have expansionist christian beliefs, I think he'd have to compromise those in order to participate in even a tacit approval of the 9/11 attacks.

Yeah, he's compromised them before in terms of war profiteering and so forth, but to be honest, I can't see him doing that. I'm sure there's plenty of suggestive evidence out there that indicates he may have been involved, but hey... there's plenty for the Kennedy assassination too, and that was decades ago.

Does anyone on the right cheer squad ever question anything beyond their own certainty?

Many are completely certain that Israel is a beacon of decency and humanity, a nation that would not legalise torture or home demolition - it was all the fault of the arabs who weren't in control of the land anyway. Except that when someone puts the facts together as Norman Finkelstein did last year in Beyond Chutzpah it is clear that Israel has never once wanted a moment of peace - they just want every arab on the face of the earth to be expunged. Every time Palestine agrees to peace they invade and slaughter more of them and then whine that the Palestinians are violent.

Israel is the only "democracy" where the defence forces can do whatever they like when they want to no matter who gets killed or hurt.

Everything the Israelis say about the Palestinians is the reverse of the reality.

Ditto the war on terror and the invasion of Iraq that is peddled as righteous by the Bushies.