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The Forum > Article Comments > One polemic too far > Comments

One polemic too far : Comments

By Nahum Ayliffe, published 20/9/2006

Pope Benedict detonated a thought bomb outside the mosques of the world last week.

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ONYA Leigh
Posted by VK3AUU, Wednesday, 20 September 2006 11:46:09 AM
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Sells,

You said:

“Any dialogue requires honesty and confession from both parties. How are we to have a dialogue with Islam when any statement about the history of Islam is met with violence?”

Sounds like the perfect excuse not to dialogue. There will always be a reaction by a bunch of idiots somewhere in the universe.
Confessions of the past is your religious paradigm and to-date the church is in denial about Hitler’s version of Christianity and the crusades were a faithful bunch!
Discussing the present and the future is a more constructive dialogue.

Leigh,

I am an Australian Muslim and there is an number of posters of the Muslim faith and we do express our opinions freely.
Posted by Fellow_Human, Wednesday, 20 September 2006 11:49:10 AM
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doesn't anyone find all of this a bit surreal?

What we have are various groups of believers in the supernatural, arguing about the merits of an obscure 500 year old text, which was about a discussion about the relative merits of supernatural beliefs, between two believers in different supernatural beings.
Posted by last word, Wednesday, 20 September 2006 11:54:40 AM
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Lets see. Charlemagne was not the first to convert by the sword. Mohammed himself was. If you can't get basic history right, then perhaps you should consider a different hobby.

That you can't distinguish between the fact that the founding and spread of Islam was primarily by the sword (I.e. The founder of Islam spread it by violence) is different to Christianity which was spread under the sword (with early christians being persecuted and killed for their faith). There is a big difference in doing something that is consistent with and praised by your beliefs (e.g. Islam and communism using violence), and doing something that is not consistent with your beliefs (e.g. trying to spread Christianity by violence).

Considering how many atheists and secular humanists have commented that all religion is evil, this is a rather self-serving and pathetic polemic.

You talk of 'the vast majority of reasonable Muslims', but as recent polls in indonesia show, this is a fiction. Take your propaganda elsewhere.
Posted by Alan Grey, Wednesday, 20 September 2006 11:54:58 AM
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Fellow Human,

Perhaps more time spent on your fellow Muslims would be more productive. If you cannot convince other Muslims that terror and violence is not acceptable, there is very little chance of convincing non-Muslims. And, with respect, I cannot recall a post of yours in which you actually condemn Islamic extremists, but I do remember you coming up with all sorts of ripostes about other religions, just as the author of the article we are commenting on has. We should be dealing with the here and now. Not with the past which, sadly, is where your faith seems to be entrenched.

I must say that I would not like to be a Muslim trying to convince others that Islam is peace and light when people are murdering in the name of Allah all over the world.

I see that you refer to Adolf Hitler's 'version of Christianity' as you have some of your previous posts.

Only yesterday, Archbishop Pell referred to Hitler's 'anti-Christianity'. I have called into question your use of Hitler before. I have no religion of my own, but surely Pell would know at least as much as you do about Christianity and where Hilter fitted in?
Posted by Leigh, Wednesday, 20 September 2006 12:10:57 PM
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From what I can gather, the Pope was attempting to talk about a fundamental underlying difference between Islamic and Christian philosophy, with one explicitly advocating in its sacred text the use of violence both to expand the religion, to eliminate unbelievers (especially apostates), and to avenge any effrontery, real or imagined, while the other spells out in its sacred text the ideas of forgiveness and of loving ones enemies as ones friends etc.

Whether these two ideologies are reflected in their practice by their respective followers is another debate, and, while extremely important, shouldn't be raised here to confuse the issue.

Perhaps, such a debate is too much to be hoped for in this era.

This raise the question as to whether Muslims are prepared to acknowledge some of the more unpleasant passages and messages contained in the Koran.
Posted by NODDY, Wednesday, 20 September 2006 12:50:32 PM
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