1. don’t kill or otherwise violate the physical integrity of others;
2. don’t steal;
3. don’t lie (this includes keeping promises); and
4. assist others in serious trouble when assistance would immensely help them at no or little inconvenience to oneself.

Good one Mirko - totally agree.

Good article Mirko. This is a similar to the situation a while ago where a plan was mooted to force potential voters to pass an IQ test before being eligible to vote where the same criticism emerges – what constitutes a high IQ?

The simple fact that every individual is motivated by different incentives means that they will place different emphasis on different values. While the list above is general enough to incorporate common values across many cultures it does not account for the different emphasis placed by each individual on the above values.

The recent attempt by the government and opposition to blend diverse cultures into one is absurd and gives me the same sick feeling anytime someone discourages behaviour for it being un-Australian. Why the constant need to identify traits common between Australians? Inferiority complex I suspect... I relish Australia for its freedom of expression, religion and the existence of an un-definable culture.

Buggga! - I find myself in agreement with this

What a load of rubbish.
Accept Mirko's values and reject Beazleyy's?

Some convergence to moral principles? Please. This is a load of dishonest propaganda.

Defending multicultural nonsense with utilitarian nonsense is the summation of this article.

For instance... "moral principles that apply to all cultures"
1) "don’t kill or otherwise violate the physical integrity of others;"

Except for all those cultures, like the Aboriginal culture, who think it is okay for a tribal leader to kidnap, assault and rape a 14 or 15 year old girl.

Don't hide behind weasal words Mirko. It's unAustralian

This is a very bad article and it surprises me that someone in the authors position should be so naive. The problem with liberalism is that it makes no attempt to form character. It assumes that we are all good and pure lovelies and that all we need is freedom to produce the perfect society. Several thousand years of Christian theology shows that this is not the case. We are not clean slates upon which may be written good things but we are filled with greed and envy and fear that distorts our moral compass. The projected freedom becomes a wasteland in which characterless souls pursue their desire, whatever that may be. This is a recipe for cultural collapse. There is no community of character in this there is only the isolated individual who must “make up his own mind” in a vacuum. The only thing we get is people of mind numbing superficiality who are prey to any advertising push or any ideology that promises to make them feel good.

Knowing what is good is not enough! We may know what is good, that is as simple as the authors list, but we cannot for the life of us do it. We need to be taught how to live non-violently in violent world. The author has an unrealistic view of the powers that are abroad.

Kim Beazley’s whacky idea of having tourists sign up to Australian values is just too ridiculous to mention in the same breath as the Government’s entirely reasonable and much needed changes to obtaining citizenship rights.

Mirko sometimes goes off the rails, and I find his suggestion that some Australian values might be morally offensive … well, offensive; and I don’t accept that there is any evidence that there is a cultural ‘convergence’ as per his four commandments.

While individuals can be as individualistic in their personal lives as they please, why the hell should Australia not insist on certain basic values that this country was built on and, which provide all the people who came here much later – after the hard yards were done – with a good, safe life. Why should the Bagaric’s be able to say, ‘Hey, lets go to live in the country the Smiths built. We’ll have to change their rules a bit, though’.

‘When in Rome..’ still holds good, in my view.

Well well well...Mirko has finally discovered the 10 commandments :)

TOOK A WHILE you dill :)

It looks like he also discovered the concept of social welfare, and looking after 'The alien and the fatherless' from the covenant rules of Israel.

It is MUCH simpler to summarize a guide for human behavior in terms of the 2nd great commandment..

"Love your neighbour as yourself" ! how easy and all encompassing is THAT?
Jesus said that this is the summary of the Law, or at least the horizontal relationships aspect..(man with man).

I warn though, if we neglect the FIRST "Love the Lord your God with all your heart" the 2nd will fade into an abyss of relativism and moral ineptitude which will be our absolute and guaranteed downfall.

WHAT ABOUT CULTURE ?
Mirko, it might be easy for one with a fare more recent migrant background to totally dismiss the idea of 'Australian Culture' and it might serve the interests of the Multicultural lobby, but in doing so you basically INSULT the vast majority of Australians suggesting they dwell in some vaque cultural haze and are stumbling directionless in a myopic social fog.

The truth is, we have a prevailing culture and it is not only our RIGHT to promote and protect it on every level, it is our responsibility! The only reason Mirko can speak about some far off 'universal values' is because we have yet to discipline this roque cultural invader and sort him out :)

I have no essential problem with most of the self styled “Aussie values” like respect for the rule of law, respect for women, mateship, etc. Thing is, there’s nothing specifically Aussie about any of these: they’re simply universal human values written in green and gold with that bizarre dirge the National Anthem playing in the background – no doubt to drown out the sound of dog whistling.

The suggestion that prospective visitors should be made to sign their assent to such values is frankly insulting to them, and I’m deeply embarrassed at the prospect of treating our guests in such a patronizing manner.

Apparently Beazley's gone completely nuts - or maybe he's learnt a good dog-whistling tune from the Rodent. Imagine the average Aussie's response if they were required to sign up to 'Indonesian values' before being allowed to holiday in Bali!

Dog-whistling and predictable yapping aside, I also find myself agreeing with Prof Bargaric for a change. What's going on?

Don't often agree with Mirko but he is spot on here. These are universal values, not framed by any religious context. Leave religion out of this debate, it is not relevant. Is my religion (if I had one) superior or inferior to yours?

Alan Grey - calling people unAustralian is unAustralian damn you. Phrasing a statement with a suitable amount of irony is much more preferable.

Within a culture there is wide scope for what is acceptable. While I concede that sort of thing does happen in Aboriginal communities, I put it to you that the number of Aboriginal Australians who find that behaviour acceptable is a tiny minority. It is the apathy and alcoholism in these communities that allows it to happen, and while it isn't encouraged, sometimes they let it happen.

While I've thought most of Mirko's pieces weren't spectacular, this one isn't too bad. Not particularly insightful, granted, but reasonably accurate.

What kind of bothers me are these simple categories we have of defining being Australian. Fair enough, respect for women and so forth, but things like mateship and a 'fair go' aren't really ours. They exist all over the world, but we've just added a new tag and some aussie vernacular, and pretended they're concepts of ours.

What exactly is the point of people "signing on" to our values anyway? Surely no one's going to be silly enough to not do that when they enter the country if they want to cause problems. It's like how I got taken to task for writing "porn star" as my profession last time I went through customs. I could have written carpenter or tax accountant, neither would have been honest, but neither would have raised an eyebrow. Yeah, as if some guy who wants to attack "Australian Values" is going to write that he's a jihadist who wants to bring about Sharia Law and will blow up the Harbour Bridge to do so. We're fast becoming a parody of ourselves in this country.

As for any sort of convergence on moral principles, that's a load of nonsense too. People will always find exceptions to those four listed principles (eg. invading foreign countries for their own good, collateral damage, etc.). Likewise, some people consider (excessive) tax to be theft, others require low taxation to be morally reprehensible and socially irresponsible. If there were a convergence of moral principles, there'd be a convergence of politics, but there isn't.

"why the hell should Australia not insist on certain basic values that this country was built on and, which provide all the people who came here much later – after the hard yards were done – with a good, safe life."

Leigh: I agree whole-heartedly! Everyone should sign up to the values of killing and dispossessing black people, while simultaneously enslaving white people for the profit of others for seven years for stealing a loaf of bread. It would be totally un-Australian to see that this country was built on a fair go for all! All these bloody foreigners are just ungrateful because they weren't here in the 18th and 19th centuries to be slapped in leg irons and learn real Aussie values and do the "hard yards".

Well I think this one is trouble

"assist others in serious trouble when assistance would immensely help them at no or little inconvenience to oneself."

So, lets say in the progress of your work you come across a situation where, if you assisted a person in serious trouble, it would negatively damage your reputation too because of the position you hold. Say a Police for instance in a matter that involved abuse of their power.

What then? Does the fact that it will also negatively impact on you justify the turning of a blind eye.

Is that a value that we need or a value that some want so that they can cover up for their mates and protect the reputation of those that abuse their power?

Thanks Mirko for sticking up for true liberalism.

I accept that Sells' believes it's necessary to look into Christian values in order to become an ethical agent - and I respect his view. But I think there are many other ways to achieve the same thing - and that's the point of liberalism.

If you can improve your ethical character through meditating on Christian values, good on you. Doesn't oblige me or anybody else to, tho'. We can find plenty of other ways that works for us, thanks.

A liberal society increases the potential for all of us to become more ethical, since it's not "one size fits all".

During a discussion between actors regarding accents in Europe recently, it was decided the hardest accent to imitate was Australian and many said it was to difficult to do. When pressed, one said, the only way to imitate an Aussie was to smile as you talk and most of the worlds cultures aren't relaxed enough to do that, so its very difficult.

Multiculturalism leads to one outcome, multi ways of destroying a society. True Aussies, smile (grin) when speaking as the culture we developed gave everyone a reason to grin and be relaxed. Now the grin is disappearing as is our unique culture, under the guise of multi culture, but it's really multi opposing ideologies in growing conflict.

Mirko along with others pushing this deadly barrow, can't grin when they speak, as their culture has removed the smile of life with violence and suppression. Now they want to bring us down to their level to get equality, as they are incapable of reaching the evolutionary heights of Australian culture.

The reason they can't pin our cultural norm down, is because it's beyond their understanding. Most of the worlds cultures haven't evolved and are still in their infantile, 'I'm right' stage of development. Mirko wears that hat with pride

World cultures have been inert for hundreds and even thousand of years, so only have a past to offer and a violent one at that. Multiculturalism is a death sentence for this country as it has been for all others, throughout history.

People pushing their cultural barrow, are traitors to this country and will never be Aussie as they have no idea what it is. Like all cultural ideologies, what they can't understand, they denounce and try to destroy. Typical of the unevolved mono believers.

Ethics is not a matter of meditating on of a set of values Christian or otherwise. Rather a character who acts ethically out of habit is formed by a community that shares a common narrative. In the churches case this narrative is the Christian story. Liberal lists of the good are minimalist, this version is even shorter than the 10 commandments. They tell us nothing about who we are, where we come from and the way we are to go. They give us no identity, no character out of which to act. They are law and as Paul says, the law kills when it is used as the sole basis of ones life. Secular ethics has given us political correctness a blanket that smothers real discussion in the pretense that we are all nice. We are not nice! Read any great novel of the Western canon and you will find how nasty, confused and fearful of death we are. Again I must insist that we cannot be taught to be good by taking values seriously. Our plight is deeper than not knowing right from wrong. It is not knowing who we are.

So it's suppposed to be morally correct of me to reject values espoused by my culture is it?

I don't think so.

Suffering from cultural cringe are we? A new migrant perhaps or one who just can't accept just being Australian.

If you don't like it here or like us our culture our lifestyle our values.... MIGRATE. There's bound to be somewhere you'll be happy.
I'm happy here, or was until the crock called multiculturalism was foisted upon us. Now we have a situation where "many" cultures are set to replace the Australian culture.

Forget it multiculture only existed because we had a culture and society willing to tolerate the experiment... well now is the time we ended it.

Sorry T800, it is you that will have to leave if you are not happy. Australian culture is multiculture. Has been for the last 200 years of white settlement. As there is no way you can separate out your supposed pure Australian culture, accept reality or move out. Of course if you want to stay, learn to embrace and enjoy our cultural diversity.

Yes, that's all well and good Sells. But what I want to know is why your narrative is the right one. In the massive ethnological literature there is any number of myths concerning supernatural beings who created the world and articulate the place of humans in it, including how we are supposed to behave. Sells reckons the Judaeo-Christian mythopoeiea is the right one - I reckon they're all artefacts of human culture that function to provide meaning for us in a usually harsh environment, wherever that may be.

I quite like Mirko's minimalist list of basic social values, which even the "dog-whistled" yapping demographic would have to acknowledge - if they weren't so preoccupied with their... (I can't say the "X" word)... fear of the "Other". Such values would have to be prior to religion, if only because people had to live together in order to create their deities.

Being a relative newcomer to this forum, I have to say that I'm quite astonished at the level of vitriolic comment here - that expresses all kinds of hateful sentiments that I don't normally encounter in my daily interactions with others. And I live in the bush, dealing with supposed 'rednecks' daily in my business!

I think that religious nutters of all persuasions get far too much oxygen in today's world. While I'm sure that religious beliefs provide meaning and guidelines for the intellectually and morallly credulous, any rational analysis would have to conclude that, in general, religion causes more trouble than benefits in the 21st century.

My lifelong experience of "Aussie" values has been one of secular irreverence and short shrift for sanctimonious and/or jingoistic twaddle. But Howard and Beazley don't seem to be talking about *those* Aussie values...

Do I hear a whistling in the distance? Dammit - why are the bloody dogs barking?

Writes the author:

"We are morally complete and virtuous individuals if we do as we wish so long as our actions do not harm others."

Virtue is more difficult than this. It has little to do with 'doing as we wish' and more to do with following what's right regardless of what we might want personally at a particular time.

A married man who meets an attractively flirtatious woman might want to sleep with her. If no one finds out he might easily be able to claim that no one would be hurt if he did so.

But the moment of virtue here is if he restrains from following what he wants to do. The virtue is in his sense of moral integrity defeating a powerful want.

ROSSCO... SINCE WHEN CAN A NATIONAL CULTURE BE MANY NATIONAL CULTURES...

I await your next enlightening reply.

The role of Government is to administer, teach and enforce a political / religious world view on the society over which it governs. Politics defines the ideas of ethics of the culture over which it is the agreed values of its people or Government. Ethics are the agreed values / standards that is believed serve the society best. All of these are variable depending upon the world view adopted by the society or its government.

Christian morality are universal standards applied by the educated conscience from the absolute purity of human design ideals [the image of GOD]. Love and worship the highest of pure character [GOD] and from that your neighbour as you would desire to see expressed first in yourself.

Dear Rossco

In making your point about 'Australia is many cultures, always has been' .. I honestly feel you are missing a VERY important aspect.
That is..the emergence of a genuine 'Australian' culture from the main ethno cultural groups who comprised Australia up the point where large scale migration became a reality, that being the end of World War II.

You might gain a sense of this through the poetry and prose of Lawson and poetry of Patterson, and even the writings of one "Inky (Percy)Stephenson" who was described as a fascist and a nazi sympathizer, though I think that accusation was misplaced and deliberately foisted on him for his well argued views against 'semitism'. (He started as a communist and ended up as supposedly a fascist, was detained for 3 yrs on these grounds during the war)
He wrote "Foundations of culture in Australia" and from what I can see is worth a read.
http://home.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/stephensen/prs4.html

Personally I reject both Communism and Fascism, but I know a well argued case when I see one :)

Then, the classic expression is in Dorothea Mckella's poem 'My Country' particularly stanza 2 (in contrast to stanza 1)
http://www.anointedlinks.com/my_country.html

I'd be interested in your own ethno/cultural background as it might explain your views somewhat.

Culture is basically the response of people in groups to their environment. So, it is not plausable to deny the emergence of a uniquely 'Australian' culture where the common bond was language. The existence of this sense of culture was manifest at the Lambing Flat riots, http://members.ozemail.com.au/~natinfo@ozemail.com.au/1lambing.htm
which would not have occurred had there not 'been' a sense of culture which they believed needed defending.

When it comes to other cultures on what do you base your rather scathing assesment alchemist?

Who are uninvolved infantile cultures ? how are they inert? as you tell us with absolute certainty that Most cultures are pretty crappy perhaps you could tell us which ones are worthy of being embraced by us - ? that might be easier

Can you point to the evolutionary heights we have reached that others have not? - please help me out here

I dont push a cultural barrow but I am pretty relaxed about others promoting theirs - so I guess I am a traitor - or at best a collaborator.

Jolanda - you're taking the values too strictly. Mirko pointed out that they're pretty vague.

If you give it enough latitude, the situation you describe would clearly be classed as an inconvenience, therefore it would fit, and the police officer or whatever would not be obliged to do it.
The statement itself is simply asking people to help out if it won't cause them problems, and your example highlights problems.

And C J Morgan - yes, there's some vitriol here, but perhaps it's worthwhile listening to gain a deeper understanding of the views of the fringe - from either end of the spectrum.

do the aussies already in australia have to pledge to 'mateship and hard work'? i hope so, as when i lived there, many times neither of these 'values' eminated from australians mouths - the phrase 'you f...ng kiwis take all our jobs' sums it up pretty well i think.

Of all the contributers to this article, Mirco included, T800 is closest to the mark.

There is no reluctance to people from different cultures coming to live in Australia. We simply want them to become one of us,Australians with traditional Australian values, fair go, mateship, rule of law, non sectarian government, equality of the sexes, and so on. Sure, over time some of the values from their original culture will blend into the overall collection of things that we find to be Australian. But to attempt to establish communities that are miniture collectives of another country's culture is just not on. That is what upsets many Australians about multiculturalism.

Become an Australian, and Australian first, and we will welcome you and the strengths you bring with you. That's all we want. And if that is a coercive sentiment, so be it.

Isn't a bit rich insisting that mossies and tourists have aussie values when we allow our dog-whistling politicians to accept bribes from religious groups that don't vote, don't pay taxes, don't believe in equality for women. These religious groups also expect to have state aid for their schools.

billie,
Are you claiming the Exclusive Brethren are receiving State Aid for schools. It would appear so, otherwise if you are speaking of Muslims who have their own schools they certainly vote. Most children of Exclusive Brethren attend State schools. I suggest you research more before you make unfounded sweeping statements.

Philo, I may be wrong, but I believe there's at least 5 Brethren schools in Aus, all receive federal funding and are closed to outsiders. Their places of worship also receive federal funds and tax exemptions, even though they are in breach of the requirements which state, only public places of worship receive tax exemptions and funding. However they refuse access to the public, for worship or education. Isn't that fraudulent.

I've dwelt with these people and find them to be disgusting in their approach and suppression of susceptible superstitious people. Like all regional factions, they are completely the opposite to what they espouse is their aims, followings and applications.

The brethren lobbied heavily to have disclosure of donations to political parties raised to $10000, to enable them and other masters of the lib/lab coalition, to conceal where their money comes from so they are free to push their suppressive religious agenda's.

Philo, as time goes on the true veracity of your beloved Yahweh ( god of war) and how it expresses through those it has enslaved, is being fully revealed. This is why so many Australians wish to be rid of the continuing destruction, lies and complete disregard for anything, but monotheisms violent attempts to be right. We don't want religious values in our country, the results historically and currently world wide is the only example we need to show it's veracity.

Can someone define "fair go", "mateship" etc. It seems to be almost a foreign language - I think the Brits, the Scots, the Irish, the Americans and any other english speaking country may just need a translation before they sign to anything.

Who's going to sign a similar form when visiting Asia, Africa and South America?

Rather than focus on what values foreigners must adopt when they arrive here, I'd prefer to focus on the values and cultural forms that these "people"(foreigners) are expected to drop entirely.

Please be specific.

(This should be interesting).

If they are expected to drop nothing but simply adopt and embrace "Australian values" then what happens if everyone looks at the above translation and says

"Mateship: form of compassion - check, fair go: tolerance of others - check"
"equality of women - well this country isn't the best example of treating women equally so I suppose the way we treat women is on par with their "Australian way"- check"

Etc. etc.

So in the end they're really not having to give up or change anything. They just say they do and they're now suddenly "Australian".

Good. They can then continue to enrich our country with values of their own so that our adolescent culture can blossom into the fully grown and humane cultue it should be.

Heh. Nice post Fleurette, that about sums it up.

Lets see now. Why not just have a list where we tick off all the things we do need to be, and all the things we don't?

Please agree to the following:

1. Learn how to barbecue a variety of meat products. Preferably beef, but chucking a prawn on the barbie is also acceptable as both food and vernacular. Steer clear of anything that might use chopsticks or is spicy. That's getting a little too foreign and therefore suspicious.

2. Learn waltzing matilda. It doesn't matter that most of us don't know what it means or what it's about. Oh, learn the national anthem too, but only the first few verses. We don't like people pointing out the dodgy politically incorrect later verses. It's UnAustralian.

3. Buy a ute. Preferably a holden, but a ford'll do.

4. You familiar with the term friendship? good. Now it's referred to as mateship, and only Aussies can do it. It's kind of like a secret handshake, only everybody know's about it.

5. Follow the footy damnit. Pick AFL or NRL, and rail against whatever one you don't pick as either being soft, or a game for idjits.
Oh, and idiots are now idjits. While you're at it, idolize footy players, cause they've done much more for our entertainment than any boring scientist or intellectual. Since when have any of them scored consecutive tries?

6. Alternatively, devotion to the cricket is acceptable. You've gotta be able to sit through a test match though. You can sleep at one of course, but only if it's as a result of excessive drinking. See rule (8).

7. If you see a kiwi, you're honour bound to fire off at least one sheep-shagging joke.

8. Learn to get pissed properly and frequently. This process doesn't involve urination... well... okay, it does, but not like that. It's more about beer.

But seriously folks. What are these elusive Australian values?
As fleurette pointed out, it would make more sense to simply outline a few rules.

Go anywhere on this clayball,in the western world,and no one has asked me to obey any rules and regulations,may be wrong will someone say so

T800
Australian culture, if there is such a thing, is made up of a combination of many different cultures. Think of it as a mosiac, the big picture is made up of many small pieces. Further, as with a mosiac, you can keep adding more pieces to add to the overall effect.

Another way to look at is as a patchwork. My wife does patchwork, she takes many diverse pieces of materials, different colours, shapes and sizes and produces a piece of work which all fits together coherently.

Another way is to think of a piece of cloth woven from many threads. The piece of cloth appears as a whole but couldn't be made without the weaving.

Do you get the picture now. Australian culture has drawn on many other cultures to be a multiculture society. There is no such thing as a separate Australian culture which stands apart from the sub cultures which have all contributed to the big picture.

As has already been stated is that the Exclusive Brethren do not vote or have not in the past 200 years lobbied politicians. Why? They have previously existed in their own exclusive community not wishing to push their agenda upon anyone else. Why has this changed?

Their moto is "Come ye out from among them and be ye seperate saith the Lord." The changes have occurred because of the current threat to family by radical left wing atheists wishing to brain wash and ridicule their children in Public Schools. They have no agenda to subvert society, only the intact survival of their family.

They also do not go to war or join the armed services contrary to the claimed view of Alchemist. His total hostile bigitory and dishonesty is a bigger threat to the values of Australian society than any desire by the Exclusive Brethren. They get exemption from the armed services on religious grounds. I live in a community where there are several hundred living.

They are the most inoffensive and private people I know.

The four values Mirko has cited comprise the basic tenants of libertarianism, and insisting that we all become libertarian is just as oppressive as insisting that we hold to any other philosophy against our wills.

Mirko has simply listed values common to most cultures, but then he insists that because they are common to all cultures that they are therefore absolute 'moral truths', to which all others are subservient. He doesn't seem to realise that his suggestion intrinsically contradicts itself - no cultures on earth hold to these ideals only, and to insist that any one culture conform to those ideals restricts the individuals within those cultures to practice their cultural norms.

Moreover, it would never be possible to enforce this. People will always practice social control through ostracising people who don't conform in ways which contradict their central norms, and this is a way of ensuring co-operation within the 'tribe'. Our ability to co-operate is one reason we didn't become extinct in the ice-age, and that co-operation literally relies on our joint abilities to conform, and to sometimes think independently.

Oh f... did I say 'tenants'? Sorry, I'm a complete dork, I meant 'tenets'. Aphasia, you know.

rossco... I've always had the picture.

You however seem to be having a problem distinguishing between a singular item and many items.

One cannot be many.

Australian cannot be Italian. Italian cannot be Turkish. Turkish cannot be Chinese.

Are YOU getting the picture yet?

Snout, I've been thinking about your comment "The suggestion that prospective visitors should be made to sign their assent to such values is frankly insulting to them, and I’m deeply embarrassed at the prospect of treating our guests in such a patronizing manner.".

I bushwalk when I can. Each time I apply for a permit to camp in a wilderness area I am presented with a list of values/rules for my visit into the wilderness area. Most appear to me to be common sense items because I'm familiar with them. I don't feel patronised or insulted because the National Parks service spells out clearly the behaviour that is required during my visit. Not everybody who visits those areas seems to share those values.

It's a somewhat less formal approach for a day hike when I don't need a permit but most main walking tracks have a signboard up with a similar list on it.

It need not be patronising to give visitors a summary of the rules of the place prior to their deciding to visit. On the other hand I doubt very much that those processes achieve much except with visitors who want to behave respectfully in the place they are visiting.

Has there been anything published which suggests that we have some general problem with the behaviour of short term visitors? Clearly some groups in the community don't respect the kind of values being discussed but don't think that they are tourists taking time out from looking at the rock or lying on the beach to tell passing women about the imagined size of their bits and pieces.

We generally don't want people on tourist visa's working too hard, just spending hard and getting good memories to take home.

Telling tourists something about acceptable behaviour does not sound like it would achieve much but it does not have to be insulting.

R0bert

RObert, I don’t think you can compare a visit to a National Park to a visit to a country. National Parks have quite defined and explicit rules partly because they can be delicate places that have to carry a lot of potentially damaging traffic and because caring for such places is not necessarily second nature for many of their visitors. I don’t reckon you can compare entry to a whole country like Australia to that situation: it seems precious, and yes, condescending.

Come to think of it, though, there is one rule I’d like to see stamped on all tourist visas:

“Please don’t climb Uluru. No, we’re not going to fine you or jail you if you do, but the traditional owners are kind of hoping that when you visit you’ll understand why we ask this."

T800. For centuries countries have invaded, colonised and interbred with one another. What is Italian? What is Turkish? What is Chinese?

I am Australian. My grandparents are Lebanese. My Great, Great Grandfather was Irish. My great, great Grandmother was Turkish. I am all these things because of immigration. I'm told I look Italian, sometimes Spanish, sometimes French, sometimes Greek - sometimes Turkish. I then discover that all of the above countries were once occupants of Lebanon - how can one possibly identify with anything when we are so diverse in nature!

It explains my ethnic makeup, my features, my heritage etc. but my personality traits and my upbringing is influenced by a whole myriad of factors. I was raised in this country - but who am I? Do I even need a label? How restricting is it to label anyone anyway?

Stop focusing on ethnicity for a second - we're discussing values. Why should certain values be exclusively assigned to certain ethnicities and countries.

Remember the song: 'we are one..but we are many'

A Lebanese girl from Beirut once said that the Lebanese in Australia are not truly Lebanese. The values they adopt under the guise of 'Lebanese' are old fashioned and outdated. They have held onto these values because they felt threatened when they first arrived on these hostile shores.

When asked what are the Lebanese values today - what does it mean to be Lebanese today she replied 'it's about having fun'

Now there's a values form I'd happily fill out and sign with little to no hesitation. For a country that claims to be so relaxed, laid back and easy going we certainly know how to get worked up and uptight over the strangest and the silliest of issues.

People are dying in our world everyday from natural disasters and political turbulence and here we are sitting around a campfire discussing values as if they're facing the threat of extinction. It's almost comical really

I thought that one of the Aussie characteristics, and one I particularly like, was our sense of irony and the ability to laugh at ourselves and not take ourselves too seriously, I feel that we are realy losing that.

This stuff about things being unAustralian, I really don't like it, it sounds so sanctimonous and pompous, something I thought Australians generally were not. I don't know, all this talk of "unAustralian" sounds to me, well... very American!

I agree totally with the article and many of the comments. The truth is that Australia aquired new values in 1788. To the values of the Aborigines we added the values of several new cultures in one fleet:-

Anglo protestant
Irish Catholic
Jewish

There may have been more.

When sovereignty was claimed over the Torres Straits islands we added a new set of values.

Then came:-

Chinese
Afghan
Other European
Pacific Islanders

If I have left anyone out please correct me.

Then came hundreds more.

Each new group is initially rejected by the rest and then a new set of values are forged, with some individual groups forming their own variants. The only group which have tried to impose their views on the rest are the Anglo protestants. The only real losers have been the indigenous people.

My own family are Jewish settlers form the late 19th century. It is possible to be slightly different within the main body. Let's be honest the Anglos themselves are slightly different. Good governement helps iron out the problems. The Menzies, Whitlam, Frazer and Hawke administrations all actively led us into the new Australia, one of which we are justly proud.

Then came Howard and his miserable friends. When leadership fails problems occur as they have now. Surely the Cronulla riots could have been averted with proper leadership.

Perhaps the most important Australian value is multiculturalism. could we ask everyone to sign up to that?