Karooson and Co you are no better than Leigh.

Dwelling on colonialism does nothing to address the problems of indigenous Australians. But since we are dwelling let's be objective. British colonies have faired relatively well since the imperial era-HongKong, Malaya, NewZealand are prosperous. But wait! Modern history shows French success in Lebanon/theCongo, Portugal was great in Timor, the Dutch were superb in SouthAfrica , Tibetans were fostered by China and Japan united Korea(sarcasm++). If anybody but the British had colonised Australia the indigenous population would probably be worse off. I am not trying to justify the wrongs of colonialism-its impossible. But dwelling on it is unproductive and irrational.

Karooson andCo are perpetuating the victim mentality but have no answers/suggestions to improve the plight of aboriginals. The article's author maintains that aboriginal Australians should have self-determination-has he forgotten that between 1980-2004 paternalism was a 'dirty' word and that all aboriginal Australians got was self-determination? ASIC was responsible for frittering away billions of dollars through corrupt,nepotist policies.

Nobody is asking aboriginals to forget or to forgive- but how about working for future generations? Elders talk about lost dreaming but the reality of the situation is that elders need to talk about alcohol abuse and parental responsibilities. Why can't aboriginal communties get kids off the street by 11pm and stop women/the elderly being beaten?

'DerekLane' is in denial- numerous studies conducted by government/aboriginal organisations confirm truancy and domestic violence are FAR more prevalent within aboriginal communities than in mainstream Australia. A report in The Australian only yesterday highlighted AliceSprings has the highest rate per-capita of violent crimes in Australia-87% involved aboriginals!

Howard isn't a racist-he has the conviction to pursue policies widely supported-such as 'mutual responsibility'. Before you say it- Australians aren't racist! If you want to find racism hit the streets of Paris, the suberbs of Pretoria or the soccer stadiums of Spain. Australians want to help indigenous communities- they are just not interested in dwelling on the past. Afterall if your ancestors didnt come here as British convicts, Vietnamese boat-people, Greek/Italian war migrants or Jewish Holocaust survivors, you're probably not Australian!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20273332-2702,00.html

121 deaths over 10 years in the +Northern Territory+, not, as the article suggests by its buildup, Alice alone.

http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/ocp/docs/statistics/0409issue9ntcp_stats.pdf#search=%22statistics%20murder%20non%20indigenous%20Northern%20territory%22

28 deaths over a one year period, x 10 years=280

Population approx 60000 indigenous compared to approx 200000 non indigenous.

Comparisons of 'violent crime': 121 deaths over 10 years by indigenous
vs 280 total over 10 years (white inc)

30% of population of NT committed 43% of the total. They are therefore 13% more violent than the rest of the state, something which could easily be accounted for by the low socioeconomic situation comparatively, drug addiction and lack of resources provided for the rest of the country. (Note: such disparity between what 'they' get and what 'we' get is evidence of apartheid - the same goes for mandatory sentencing). (I can dig up stats on this too, if you like).

As the article suggests, we can't convict of murder (so manslaughter) in many cases, because it is fueled by alcohol. Yet what effort is made to maintain help (for alcoholics) and abstinence, with, particularly in tourist destinations, an abundance of alcohol available?

This is part of self determination, which is consistently undermined by the state where it sees fit. Many Aboriginal communities +know+ that inaccessibility to alcohol works (as a first stage); following that, allowing real development to take place. As I said, the state wants it cake to eat. That, it cannot have.

The Australian's report was obviously slanted to a view point it found appealing. It is also wrong in its conclusions, as you can see from above.

Australia is a racist nation; you can maintain that it is not; S Africans did the same before apartheid was overthrown too, showing all the things they were doing for the blacks. Colonialism is the root of the cause, as it was always. When we can allow real self-determination to take place (and not forever on our terms, but under the terms of the UN) then we are beginning to quell our colonialist urges. But not before.

cheers,

Derek

Capitalism does not permit meaningful relationships to Earth, self, all, by us, people.

Leigh does have a point ...indigenous pple must start making their own luck..because govts dont really give a toss...they are ,as Ive said elsewhere, content to dole out money and say they are doing something..the easy option..a poisoned chalice...Paternalism with a deadly twist.

Of course having said that it is not simply a matter of putting them in populates and skilling them..language and cultural barriers exist and are very real..
The answer is education.'
Properly targeted to the main needs of ind pple to give them some kind of chance at succeeding maistream.

They do need to take charge and create their own luck...

"The answer is education." - this sounds very much like assimiliation when you put it in context of 'succeeding in the mainstream'.

"They do need to take charge and create their own luck" - This is the very premise behind the indigenous convention. Self-determination is at the forefront of indigenous efforts, but government is not allowing it the full scope needed. Read the convention - you will see there is a balance that needs to be played between help and success. If govt sets boundaries of self-determination (and supplies funding only on paper, see http://www.nit.com.au/story.aspx?id=5598) then it is set up to fail.

Despite this, Aboriginal communities are succeeding - we only hear the failure stories.
http://www.newmatilda.com/home/articledetailmagazine.asp?ArticleID=1810&HomepageID=160

derek

Leigh, have you lived and worked with Aboriginal people on a first name basis either in the bush or the city, for any length of time ??
I am trying to understand your points of view .