Hamas and Hezbollah can’t advertise themselves as secular if they exclude jews.

Our concern should not be piqued merely because the people of the Middle East wish to be governed by Islamists. But the governed in the Middle East should be concerned about their future once the black stuff runs out. What will sustain the welfare mentality that is being cultivated by Hamas and Hezbollah? Where are the Middle East aircraft and motor vehicle assembly plants? Where are the Middle East computer chip manufacturing plants? Hamas and Hezbollah might pause and ask: who generates that money for us to hand out? Is its source the Koran or is a commodity sold in order to generate money which is then handed out?

A simple test to see if Hezbollah is morally superior to the West might be how it reacts to anti-Hezbollah demonstrations. If the people welcome hospitals but do not welcome rockets and arms being stored in those hospitals would the people be free to hold an anti-Hezbollah or anti-Hamas demonstration? Would Hamas and Hezbollah welcome a challenge to their morality? Would they employ smiling tolerance perhaps?

If the Middle East is to be recast as essentially Rousseauist all that will achieve is to replace one yoke with another yoke. Wearing that yoke is not likely to produce individuals who want to step out into the sunshine. That might be a salient lesson for both Hezbollah and Hamas; if the population is cowed entrepreneurs, critical thinkers, innovators and the like will be hard to find. Notwithstanding the odd Stakhanovite such a society produces, getting about clutching the Koran is hardly a paradigmatic leap.

If Islam is to replace communism I suggest that citizens of the Middle East tour North Korea before it’s too late.

In terms of secularism, I was fascinated by the argument earlier this week from the counsel representing the Islamic Council of Victoria.

It's the appeal on the case where the Council claimed 2 mad Christian preachers were vilifying them and their religion - the case in which it turned out (according to the judge) that Victorian legislation means that the fact that criticism is objectively truthful or honest or subjectively sincerely believed is not a defence.

Anyway, the senior counsel argued, on behalf of her Islamic clients, that you can't criticise Islam as a religion without criticising Muslims as people because the two are inseperable.

Where's the room for secularism there?

Kevin

An EXTREMELY important article.

We would all do well to study this, not just read it. Well done Tanveer !

"But the old Marxists are now rearing their influence in many of the Islamic political parties which are rapidly rising in popularity"

There are 2 things needing to be noted here.

1/ Yes.. REAL "Marxists" are seeking to influence and control Islamic grievances for their own political reasons.

LOCAL EVIDENCE. Last saturday, I attended a demonstration in Melbourne run by the Socialist Alliance and the Palestine Solidarity Network. Atheists and Believers.. I'm guessing that each is trying to use the other.

2/ Not All "Islamist movements" are being driven by Marxists. Hamas and Hezbollah are about as "Islamist" as you could get.

Fatah/PLO is closer to Socialist/Marxist doctrine, in an Islamic cloak, as per Tanveers Article.

Hence there are 2 very real dangers for our society. Firstly the mutual 'using' of each other locally, in an attempt to have more political/social clout than each entity would have individually.
Secondly the out and out "Islamist" groups who regard suicide Jihad as a noble expression of faith.

Dear GECKO
again, I need to point out that you are both right and wrong. Right in your mention of 'Christian History' and atrocities/oppression etc, but wrong in that you fail to distinguish between Islamic oppression and the direct connection to the fundamentals of that faith, and the LACK of connection between so called 'Christian' oppression/atrocities/wars and Christ and the early Church.

I will labor this point till I run out of fingers, but its CRUCIAL.
Gecko, you realllly need to study the New Testament, from which 'Christians' come, and notice this. You will not find any reference to 'fight them in the name of Allah' kind of thing.
You will find "The weapons of our warfare are NOT carnal (human)"

I can trace Islamic conquest back to Mohammed. But NOT Christian 'conquest' back to Christ. (except the willing surrender of the heart to the Gospel) Rome fell to the Gospel up to 300AD, the world fell to Constantine's armies from AD300 onward.

Nice try.
Marx as we have all found out by now (except North Korea and Cuba) was wrong.
He failed to see into the future unlike Christianity,Islam and Jewish faith.
All three religions believe in one supreme being.
Two believe the Messiah has landed on earth.
Marx belived that we would all live happy ever after if we forgot religions,he was sadly wrong.
All religions have blood on their hands and even sixty years of Communism under Stalin,they had blood on his hands and face.
It would be nice to live in utopia where all of us live in harmony.
Even in Australia where there has been no battles on our land for more than a century.This is to take into consideration the fact that the Europeans took away the lands of the Aboriginal landholders,we have a situation developing where it is quite possible that future battles will start.
The average person in Australia once owned Telstra,Water and Electricity supplies,Railways,Highways and many other assets.
Now we find that these assets have been stolen by the Lib-Lab governments both State and Federal.
The reason so many in our community are turning toward Islam is that it preaches.
Respect for the poor,No interest on money,No womens issues against the common good.Such as Family Courts which turn family against family,Respect for the person,so Aboriginals are treated like Europeans,and not as they are presently treated under our present legal system,as inferior.
Islam has grown in strengh in this country, that today every corner of our country now has followers of the Koran.
This is dispite attempts by the Christian right that only they will enter Heaven.
Now our government that is run for the profit of the few against the masses is now attempting to steal more of our country.

Islam is not more moral than the West, despite appearances. Islam is built on a base of male domination and male gratification. That is not moral.
Communism was based on "equality" but of course, some [the top echelon] were more equal that others. The top skimmed the cream , the rest were left with the dregs.
The West has many,many defects but there is more a chance of equality, even a fool can become President.
All isms have their day, but none will endure because they are built on quicksand.

A hatchet job cloaked in populist sentiment.

"Marx...advocating radical change...successor to communism...cloaked in God" - no mention of Satan yet but other posters are invited to toss in their two bob's worth.

All the muslims I know are particularly family-oriented. None of them are running for parliament.

Your last paragraph pretty much sums it up Tanveer.