1 ...
Peter says ....... "I tried, unsuccessfully, to jolt readers out of the idea of heaven being the reward for a good life after death. There is a strong emphasis on judgment in the NT, especially in the gospel of Matthew. None of this language points to the judgment of individuals after their deaths but to an end time judgment of the whole world. "

Now my "mind over matter" issue is one concerning my lovely, dear mother-in-law, who at ninety years is quite frail now, but has alway in her life read the Bible and been a good Anglican. How do I or don't I tell this good Christian lady that she will not go to heaven? ............ Ouch!

This is not something to laugh off and ignore but indeed it becomes a serious ethical issue. There is no way I can say to her that she will not go to heaven because some contemporary theologian says so.

2 ...
Just seems all this fuss is down to the fact that religion is fashion and any teddy (god) is an artifact of fashion. Religious playpens change continually and can vary enormously depending on time and culture so can any really be grounded in absolute truth?

Peter makes these statements in his article which then represent the core of his own thoughts ...
"From this he (.... Barth) concludes that heaven, like earth, is a part of the creation and as such is creaturely and exists in time."
"Since heaven is part of the creation it may not be worshiped, it is not God."

My question is simple. If Barth "concludes that heaven, like earth, is a part of the creation" then is it not logical to assume that he means that his teddy is the creator? ............ Ouch!

Keiran,
It is obvious you relish attention in your mystical representations of your immaginative world.

Thanks Sells for the Ephesians verse. I believe the conflict of heaven there represents the conflict for the allegiance of mind by ideas. It is a spiritual state where truth and right living will ultimately triumph, when all opposing powers are vanquished. This very thread is a representation of spiritual conflict that is happening in the ether, as powers [ideas] struggle for truth and righteousness to reign against hypocracy, taunting, torment and ignorance.

Heaven is the realm of the spirit, it is not physical, even as the torment of hell is not physical. Both joy and peace or torment and fear are states of mind and can be based upon the quality of its eternal endurance.

Then he called the crowd again and said to them, "Listen to me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a person that by going in can defile, but the things that come out are what defile. For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person." Mark 7.
Philo.
Next weeks reading from the gospel of Mark puts another spin on the origin of the principalities and powers. We must own them, they are ours. Of course the libertarians are scandalized by the list but do we know anyone who would be for them? They would no doubt see them as an imposition by and authoritarian religion that is bound to restrict their precious freedom.

ahh that's it!

When I last posted, I mentioned I had heard there are 3 ideas which are represented by the English word "heaven" in the Bible but I couldn't clearly remember which one was the second.

1) The sky/atmosphere.
2) Where spiritual battles are fought (see Eph. 6).
3) God's throne room.

Paul mentioned he had gone up into the third heaven- the third one above is what he was talking about (I think).

Philo,

1. What is your take on: Luke 23:43 - "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." ... Noting "with me in paradise"? The thief was corrected from paradise, in the future, to paradise, now. Where is paradise now? What is paradise now? I assume you mean a "state".

2. Is Gehannah a metaphor. That is, The fires representing Valley of Hinnon sacrifices is to Molech (Cannanite Baal)?

3. Does the Creed state that Jesus descended into Shoel (Hell?) -a "physical" place represented by Gehannah? Like Molech, YHWH (Yahweh Sabaoth?) was originally on the Cannanite Baal. Was Jesus in a state or a place for three days?

4. 1,2 & 3 above seem to have strong Jewish tethers?

5. Do you feel from second century onwards the Framers of Christianity, lost touch with the histographies, against which the OT is set? Ha something rabbinical has been lost?

Oliver,
Paradise is that blessed and right relationship with God. That happened on that very day for the repentant theif. "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

2. "Is Gehannah a metaphor. That is, The fires representing Valley of Hinnon sacrifices is to Molech (Cannanite Baal)?"
From what I've read, Gehannah was the valley outside Jerusalem where human waste was dumped. A fire continually burned to dispose of the waste.

3. "Does the Creed state that Jesus descended into Shoel (Hell?) -a "physical" place represented by Gehannah?

Was Jesus in a state or a place for three days?"

That Jesus descended into hell, first appeared in the sixth Century imitating pagan views of the trimphant gods. Sheol is a Hebrew word meaning the grave [burial] into which he certainly was placed. He never entered a place that the Romans viewed as Hell [the firey underworld].

5. Do you feel from second century onwards the Framers of Christianity, lost touch with the histographies, against which the OT is set? Ha something rabbinical has been lost?

Yes I believe so.