Ethanol from biomass may be part of the solution, particularly if it can be drived from waste that is otherwise not used/recycled. But it can only be part of the solution and is probably best seen as a short term transitional strategy.

Among the many technologies under development, one of the most interesting in my mind is described on the site http://www.changingworldtech.com/ . The idea of petrol/diesel from garbage and other organic waste seems very attractive. I have been following the site for some years and they have recently updated it with a lot of new information. As the company has progressed to at least one scaled up test plant the process has to be at least a reasonable commercial risk. Plants in large cities and alongside large processing plants provide the dual benefit of producing a liquid fuel end product and at the same time solving the very difficult (and very fuel hungry and often very greenhouse gas producing) problem of garbage disposal.

If we are to replace fossil fuels with renewables, we need to be very much more ingenious than simply converting large tracts of land to growing bio-mass (though that may be part of the short term answer). Using garbage in various ways (the above process, methane recovery etc) could also be a useful part of the answer.

The current energy debate does not pay enough attention to the very large scope for greater fuel efficiency. Certainly this is a longer term strategy as it can only proceed at the speed at which cars are replaced, but we should be doing more to encourage hybrids, small relatively inexpensive electric cars for shopping trips and commuting, and similar changes through differential rego fees and similar incentives.

The debate doesn't give enough attention to the fact that, while other fuels can be developed to run cars, fossil oil is an invaluable and almost irreplaceable feedstock for the vast range of plastics on which our society depends. It's another argument for developing a whole range of partial solutions simultaneously, while we work towards a more comprehensive long term solution.

Not a mention of algae as a biofuel source, yet there is currently a huge amount of research in process. The following article [ http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34239 ]details one research project which predicts a biofuel yield of 10,000 to 20,000 m^3 per square kilometre per year from algae. Compare this with soya(50), mustard(130) and palm oil(610). With such potential it is no wonder the ethanol industry is so keen to heavily lobby the government for subsidies before any of the algae projects get more advanced. The last examples of governments picking winners I can think of was that glorious attempt to establish Queensland as a world leader in magnesium alloy and shale oil production. What success stories they were!

We need to consider all options… and we need to greatly improve efficient usage.

And yet again we are well into a debate on this type of subject without any mention of the third really big factor – stabilising the whole size of our society, economy and demand for all sorts of resources.

If we are unsuccessful in finding viable alternatives, we won’t have to worry too much about this factor – it will take care of itself – in a very unpleasant manner. But with the current entrenched continuous growth mentality, if we are successful, we will be facilitating continuous rapid expansion of everything human, which is just going to accelerate us into the next crisis.

For goodness sake, let’s not just think about how we can fuel our future, but how we can do it sustainably – and that means planning for limits to growth (expansion)

John, I didn't personally attack you, you presented an article with no substance, just like others in the past. I would've thought one of the educated elite, would have the proper knowledge of their subject. A short investigation could've given people something to actually debate, like why governments aren't doing anything and what their plans are.

Currently there's no restrictions for making biodiesel, but in the next couple of years excise will be introduced and you may need a refinery licence to produce it, plus the requirements associated with petro/diesel refining. Our enquires show governments have no intention of issuing any new licences so producing co-op's won't be possible. Seed oils will have to be processed by multinationals, removing any advantage in price because of transport, refinery and distribution costs. We're not allowed to make ethanol or butanol unlicenced.

This keeps fuel in the hands of the lib/lab junta backers, disenfranchising the people again. As for requiring fossil oils for plastics etc, seed oil does that efficiently with less pollution and non toxic waste, increasingly seed oil derived products are taking over from fossil oil.

Its not what can be done, but what the elite refuse to allow us to do, so they can maintain control. The proper approach would be locals growing and co-op processing in their area, using cropping, native plants and algae. You can grow a number of crops per year on the same plot, rejuvenating the soil and getting oilseed for production. Add algae dams, forest seed harvesting and you've a viable and sustainable fuel source. This would create jobs making for environmentally sustainable agriculture. If you include local solar, wind, hydro and biofuel power generation, you get a sustainable environmental friendly society. Cities can produce both fuel and power from its waste lowering costs and becoming sustainable

This won't happen as the elite agenda is to keep all commodities and energies in corporate control. We need to cease immigration, development and land degradation, concentrating on providing a fully sustainable society, not the current destructive elitist greed one.

I read your comments, and I think you did attack him. There are things to attack in the article, but you leave yourself open to ridicule suggesting that we can drive cars on something like water which has zero calorific value. You've chosen your nickname well!! There's about as much chance of that happening as finding the philosopher's stone.

John,

I still don't share your optimism for large scale biofuel production from agriculture -- but agree that sugar cane looks to be an unusually productive crop for the warmer latitudes. It is a nitrogen fixer too. It has been a famously land destructive crop in the past although I understand vaguely that practices make it less so now because of decreased burning. I doubt it's 'sustainable' though, especially if stalks are burnt for fuel rather than returned to soil. In Brazil it has been successful (probably only in the short term depending on how sustainable their agriculture is) in part because of lots of cheap labour. These are very serious issues which require more than our respective speculations.

Sorry to take this thread off track, but to the readers who speak of water cars. I'm sorry but there is and never will be such a thing as a water powered car. Yes, there is that story in the Scientist last week[1], and TV news reports from the US[2]. But they gloss over the fact that the energy is not coming from the water at all. In the New Scientist article the energy is stored as pure boron, a highly reactive element which oxidises when it meets water. It takes energy to purify boron in the first place and then to reprocess it once used. You'll always put more energy into this process than you get out, that's just the nature of thermodynamics.

So like hydrogen, which also does not appear in mineable quantities in nature, but must be created, these 'water-powered' cars always use something which is essentially a battery - water happens to be part of the process, but it provides no more energy than it absorbs. It's a bit like saying we're going to solve the energy crisis with rechargable Duracels.

By learning about entropy, the laws of thermodynamics, I've had insights into everything to understanding the economy to cooking my breakfast. And it helps you not get taken in by ideas such as water powered cars.

-- Adam Fenderson, http://www.EnergyBulletin.net

[1] http://www.newscientist.com/channel/earth/energy-fuels/mg19125621.200-a-fuel-tank-full-of-water.html

[2] http://hytechapps.com/company/press