billie: I'm not diagreeing with you entirely -- I do think this country needs to sort itself out or there will be big problems in the future -- I'm just offering another take on things.

Billie “I would like you to tell me why its fair to rear and educate our children to have 80% working crap jobs or no jobs burdened by HECS debt while we import untrained graduates for those entry level positions.”

Pure hyperbole billie, that’s just the easy speak war-cry. People always have and always will have to find employment in an ever changing employment arena. Nothing remains the same.

“To get nitpicking about the unemployment figures. How can the Australian unemployment rate be 4.8% when the most populous states have unemployment rates of 5.1%”

Simple, the individual (and lower) unemployment rates of other states, most notably WA, when aggregated into a national employment result has a lowering affect. Nitpick all you want but you are just showing your lack of numeracy skills.

As for “But where have all the factory jobs gone?”

Well a lot have gone overseas and since we still have record high employment rates, you can readily assume new jobs in other industries have replaced those which have been “lost”.

As for “Which home loan lenders will loan money to casual employees?”

Home loans for people on casual employment contracts, provided they can produce a letter from the employer advising that the casual nature of the contract is, none-the-less, expected to be “ongoing” and they can demonstrate a history in the activity in which they are employed are relatively easy to arrange (when also qualifying against the usual income, CRA and property valuation tests). Likewise, self employed people can get loans without facing too many hurdles.
(You are welcome to forward the names and phone numbers of anyone seeking home loans for my attention through Graham Young).

ColRouge I have seen the raw figures for graduate employment from various universities. I know how DEST treats those figures and I listen to those raw recruits from India every time I catch public transport.

In the past I have used statistics to distort the figures. Like many economists I believe that the unemployment rate is much higher than the oft quoted 4.8%. The WA workforce is just too small to have that great an effect on the national figures.

Yes, I have a problem with training people for jobs that don't exist and I think that if we had a frank look at our situation then we might find real solutions to building a sustainable society for the next 30 years. We might even be able to train students for the next new fields of endeavour.

billie, I can't quite square your observations on IT "offshoring" and its impact on local IT graduates' job prospects with today's headlines in the IT Business section of The Australian: "National fight for staff".

Some quotes:

"Finding technology-skilled staff, and then keeping them, is becoming an increasingly expensive and frustrating exercise..."

"Budget funding for large scale projects will come under increasing pressure as competition for experienced IT staff dries up the resource pool and drives up salaries and contract rates..."

This is severely at odds with your statement that "Since 2000 only 20% of IT graduates from the top universities could get jobs in IT".

Where is the disconnect?

From my own experience running a software development company, I can assure you that when it comes to talented developers, for at least the past fifteen years there has always been a surplus of demand over supply.

I can also vouch for the fact that many talented youngsters in whose training I have invested time and money have chosen to exercise their abilities overseas, where their skills are even more highly regarded and rewarded.

The simple fact is that offshoring of software development is a passing fad, and the key tasks that require competence will return quite soon. (Note that I can only speak for IT skills; it may be very valid to process payroll, or maintain a General Ledger, or prepare invoices overseas.) This will cause another hike in demand, exacerbate the shortage of talent even further, and programmers will once again be as rich as Croesus.

Pericles “when it comes to talented developers….”

And the operative word is “talented”

My observation, “talent” is the same as “skill” and “Skill” is primarily “technical competence mixed with a determined and positive attitude”.

The challenge Billie is trying to resolve is not that faced by the talented (who are, as you said, in chronic short supply) but the also-ran “just wanna-job-mob”, who believe that getting a piece of ornate paperwork with their name on it is the passport to wealth, riches and the adulation of their fellow man.

Reality is, the paperwork is a key which allows them to apply for a particular type of job, the rest is up to the individual.

Personally, I have always found when people undervalue themselves they end up bitter and resentful but when they hold out for what they think they are really worth, they get better pay and the respect of their peers. It is just – the latter requires that elusive “talent”.

Basically Billie is trying to solve a problem which does not really exist.

According to my reading, 'talent' means devine gift. I've always thought of determination as considerably more powerful and praise-worthy than innate ability - especially when it comes to long term success.