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The Forum > Article Comments > Power for the people > Comments

Power for the people : Comments

By Ian Lowe, published 11/7/2006

Our energy use is equivalent to having forty human slaves working for us in shifts.

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Response to Perseus:

You have criticised Narcissist for being dumb, for not being aware of the Blue Mountains railway (14 July 11:28AM), but your criticism does not make sense. In that post, there was a clear reference to the coal industry relying on oil; trains being dependent on either coal or electrity.

One may argue that the trains would continue to run, but its not dumb to point out the dependency most industries have to oil.

I note that Narcissist picked up on you saying "you can't have both peak oil and continued global warming" (12 July 4:01pm). Were you feeling a bit sour about that?

For the record, I agree with you that Narcissist has painted a too pessimistic future, but is a dismissive attitude any more helpful?
Posted by David Latimer, Saturday, 15 July 2006 12:58:22 AM
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David Latimer said, "there was a clear reference to the coal industry relying on oil;" Come again? Did you mean transport industry relying on oil? And how does this supposed reliance on oil apply to the electric (coal or future nuclear generated) trains to the Blue Mountains?

When I said you can't have it both ways it was firm in the knowledge that if China and India get even a third of their future energy from nuclear power and the rest from coal, and the modelling is realistic for densely urban energy use on the Japanese model rather than on the American urban sprawl model, then the IPCC warming scenarios have their sorry asses blown clean off the planet.
Posted by Perseus, Saturday, 15 July 2006 11:34:20 AM
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Ian Lowe:

Your disparaging analogy of " 40 human slaves working etc " is a poor substitute for a pseudo-scientific paper presumably addressing Global warming and Gas emissions ?

Slavery conjures our culpable, racial, Kanaka past.

Forty robots, or Darleks notwithstanding dehumanises the equation - quantifying ' beast-of-burden = kilowatts ?

As the Nuclear debate heats up with Howard/Blair sponsering Uranium enrichment, value added bonanza with Korea, China and India, who knows how many NP Plants will eventually be built at Port Stephens, Port Headland or Port Lincoln ? Speculation is rife at the ASX, we will soon be accepting the World's 'spent' nuke waste in a repository in Alice Springs ? Whatever next ?

Global Oil production and Reserves has a new meaning. The good news is crude oil is worth $ 80.30 a barrel finally. OPEC and all the Oil rich countries together produce 10 Billion barrels per day. " Imagine" !! John Lennon. Memories.

It's a gigantic CON - Oil will be depleted by 2010 ( absolutely ?)
An argy-bargy assumption not based on scientific fact. Oil exploration has without doubt, not reached it's zenith. Hiking the price, has spurred a Global renewal in Investment, development and exploration.

Unlike Europe and Japan dependent on Oil imports, China has negotiated $ 1 B deal in Angola to develop known reserves. $1.6 B for Siberian Oil reserves in Russia. The race is escalating and shows NO sign of abating in the short term. Meanwhile a UK Consortium is heavily involved developing the North Atlantic seabed.

Captive to the Giant Oil cartels, Howard's Energy Policies are moribund. Open exploration licensing is stingly restrictive. No wonder we are being slugged at the browser.

Fossilized Fuels for Electricity and Economic Growth is NOT the panacea, formerly accepted before the Ozone Layer and Greenhouse Gases became chi-chi. Aust, au fait contributes to the malaise by encouraging land clearing, livestock breeding, soil erosion and farm practices that is anathema to the Kyoto Protocol.

More woes: A new generation of status-symbol ' affluencza ', and a record blowout $35 B ' plastic-fantastic' debt, see more
Posted by dalma, Monday, 17 July 2006 1:43:02 PM
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household's investing in air-conditioners, electrical gizmos galore, giant TV screens, remote controls for every conceivable electric appliance invented.. to exacerbate emission tresholds, and raise Global warming by perceptable degrees.

It is manifestly clear, this Government should be increasing investment tenfold in R & D.

The US, Brazil, Japan, Germany and Finland lead the charge in the generation of Biomass, geothermal, solar and wind electric power.

NASA has developed a super efficient wind power turbine. Japan, cheap paper thin solar panels, for use by aficionado nerds and geeks. Germany the Ballard fuel cell - H2) and electricity. The innovations are ostensibly never ending.

Biomass = ethanol, butanol and biodiesel.

The derivatives from ' green 'technology is producing ubiquitous gains. Making it more economical for the gas guzzling Public. Sun flowers, soy-beans, castor beans, Jatropha plant, and animal waste is utilised extensively by more than 30 countries. In NZ, our resourceful kiwi cousins are harvesting oil from common algae.

We have to think SMART - to meet the new paradigm on Enviornmental and Social challenges.

The Nineteen Ninety's is the warmest decade in 1000 years in the Northern Hemisphere. After decades of rancorous debate, only a handful of the most doctrinaire die-hards still dispute the idea - human activity is heating up the Planet.

In hopeless denial, Sunday Mail's two-bob spruiker Andrew Bolt religiously preaches the Ozone Barrier as a Bin Laden's creation. GW an aberrant, ambigious issue proliferated by the Muslim World ? His Pro-Bush gas-bagging underpins his schizoidal pejorative psychosis. Never ceases to amaze how SM retains subscribers with his brand of scare-mongering.

Aerosols, refrigerants and fossil fuels are short listed for extinction - like Dino the Dinosaur.

As third World Countries play 'catchup' to Industrialised Nations, we will witness further excesse's on GG re-emerging. Expanding Economy's,livelihoods improving, it's their right to emulate Western Societal achievements this century.

We have arrived at a cross-road. We can either embrace the new paradigm of sustainable enviornmental and social challenges, or pursue the untenable hedonistic, self-indulgent lifestyle currently enjoyed by all, blissfully wallowing in the antipodes.

Bon appetit.

Ciao.
Posted by dalma, Monday, 17 July 2006 2:26:48 PM
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Anti-green said:
For instance as students of calculus will understand, the selected experts did not stipulate if the “peak” was to be considered as a local maximum or an absolute maximum? There is none-the-less, a possible commonality between my position and that of the environmental lobby. Given that the peak is a local maximum there is no available prognosis for its duration.
End quote:

No, the local, ie Australian peak occured in 1999. Bass Strait is at about 60% of its peak output.
The peak that is refered to is the sum of all oil field bell curves, which is the global peak.
The problem is not how long the bell curve remains at peak, it will look like a plateau, but the time when the demand curve intersects the bell curve.

At that time we cannot trust the local subsiduries of overseas oil companies to defy their head offices and refrain from out bidding the head office oil dealers. As they are based in Europe and the US it will be devil take the hindmost.
The experts are divided into optimusts, pessimists and the end of civilisation as we know it group.
If the optinists are correct and peak is 20 years or so away we need to have started doing something about it at least 10 years ago.
If the pessimists are right then we will have a very hard time indeed not proving the third group right !
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 17 July 2006 4:42:06 PM
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