Isn't it great that we will have all those forests to chop down, & use to fuel our poor lives. Of course, it means the large cities will have to go. Too expensive [in energy] to cart the wood to them.

The truth is ugly. My opinion... We use too much, think too little of others and expect others to respect us in return. If you think it is getting bad now then you haven't seen anything yet. We are suffering the curse of the 50s 60s 70s material boom. The good ol days are over folks. Uranium can only last the world about 20-30 years. The end of western civilisation must be near. Western civilisation needs to ..squash..closer together like the middle eastern communities. Sometimes it is better to go backward in order to go forwards. The above is idealistic and unachievable because greed is suppreme?

Quite so Kang

Anti green writes: “The economic pressure of increased fuel price will (almost certainly is) lead to an increase in oil exploration, improved technologies for extracting oil including from Shale oil, and greater investment in refining capacity.”

Of course.

But what comes first - increased fuel prices or increased efforts being put into solutions? The trouble is, just about everything we do that is of a meaningful scale is reactive, not proactive. So the problem has to well and truly manifest itself first. Rising prices have been a major concern in Australia for a while now, but what is our Gov doing about it? Nothing apart from talking up nuclear power. Great mate!

Then we have the problem that the alternatives to fossil fuels all require a different economic climate in order to be competitive with fossil fuels – a climate in which fossil fuels have become much more expensive, by which time the economics of our society, from the level of the individual to the national level, will have changed considerably.

Then we have the problem that even maximised supply of all alternative sources put together is simply not going to go anywhere near that of current fossil fuel supply rates.

I wonder, did either anti green or Perseus actually see 4 Corners, or did they deliberately not watch it ?

They might also be interested in the message from Ali Bakhtiari, Iranian oil and energy analyst and expert, as per this evening’s news….
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/351FD000-D263-46D8-BE9D-C17E9D5CEB84.htm

I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Will people have to be smarter, more efficient and cut back on their consumeristic lifestyles? Undoubtably to an extent, or at least until alternatives are found. Will they like it? Not at first, but they'll get used to it and they'll find a greater level of self-sufficiency as well as ways of enjoying life that don't entail buying a lot of stuff. It's only two generations ago that people kept chickens, grew vegetables and had fruit trees (and preserved any excess as well as repaired or re-used everyday items such as socks or tools).

However, to suggest that western society is on the brink of collapse is a bit alarmist I think, if for no other reason than the fact that it's certainly not in the interests of governments or corporations to have society wipe itself out. If necessary, governments would intervene and ration fuels, and basically outlaw private transportation other than bicycles, horses, etc. and move people around by buses. Maybe they'd make everyone install solar electricity. I'm sure we can all imagine different possibilities, but the bottom line is that they wouldn't just throw their hands in the air before cracking out the stone knives and animal hides. Corporations or private entrepreneurs would fall over each other to find alternatives to fossil fuels.

Come on, if you credit these guys with the intelligence to form some international cabal that has us all fooled into killing ourselves (which I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with), then at least credit such people with the intelligence not to kill the goose that lays the golden egg (ie. society and its consumers).

Happily for those Australians that can afford it, what with rising (and soon to be exponentially rising) petrol prices and lowering wages (in our race to compete with both India & China) it may well soon be cheaper to employ the 40 slaves (sorry meant to say casual staff).

John Howard 'my guarantee is my record!' (multiple times, House of Reps, 2005-6). Righto, what sort of record is that, giving due consideration to the fact that two of your closest political allies have now stated that he welched on an agreement sometime in 1999-2000?

This is truly disturbing, when can we have laws so that we can sue AWB for their financial duplicity? Maybe if we ask Sen Abetz for laws so we can more easily sue unions he'll talk the rest into it?

What a fun, warm place Canberra is in July.

Inshallah

2 bob

Before we had oil, huge corporations and beaurocracies ruled supreme, with workhouses, poverty and no services. Oil originally gave people freedom to move, develop equality and living standards, creating many small businesses world wide. To attain freedom from enslavement required the collapse of the politcial elitist system.

With just a short time of freedom, we're back where we were, enslaved, losing our freedoms and choice. As in the past, the elite will push until they break the system themselves, fools with power always do. You can see by those supporting them, how ignorant and blind they are to anything but the dollar and power signs in their eyes. China and India, are putting more than 1 million cars a month on the roads, this doesn't take into account their requirements in manufacturing and power generation.

We'll have a massive collapse, once peoples freedoms are constrained to cattle truck condtions, it will be revolution. Our governments dropped most research into alternatuive fuels, and's making it impossible for anyone but established oil cartels to manufacture and distribute alternative fuels, is this rational.

Theres no chance it won't happen, it already is. If you haven't done something, you may not have time. Theres thousands of people who began preparing for this 30 years ago and many more since. They along with rural communities will survive. One uses his sillage pits to provide his dairy, house and workshop with heat and hot water all year round. He cooks on methane from digestor made out of old water tanks, giving methane gas and lovely compost. Using simple methods can reduce your reliance, consumption and cost of energy. It only takes a bit of common sense and makes good economic reasoning. Passive heating in cities would go a long way to solving problems as would methane to power generators from the waste we produce. You don't see government doing anything, nor will they, fools never do.