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The Forum > Article Comments > The wider significance of soccer > Comments

The wider significance of soccer : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 3/7/2006

Soccer can cross ethnic groups and social classes, sprouting a nationalism across society.

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“It is soccer that can cross ethnic groups and social classes, sprouting a nationalism not felt by many.”

Yep we see that in the continuing violence, and riots soccer provides for its followers in every country its played in. Note how soccer grounds around the world have high fences to contain the violence and the fact lots of games are held without spectators because of the rioting. You will also note the current world cup has lots of violence on the streets of Germany, certainly a violent ethnic sport.

In an intelligent place like Australia, we have a game that rarely has any form of violence off the field and only spot violence on the field. Unlike soccer with its boring theatrics and whining wimpy players, in Aussie rules, they can charge players for taking a dive. In soccer, a dive is sometimes the only way they have a win or get a result.

Sure the socceroo's did well, but a world game that come across so corrupt, violent and biased is certainly a game we don't want here as our principal sporting attraction. Who wants to end up like the rest of the world fighting amongst themselves over a bunch of wimps, unable to kick a ball into a net.

The Socceroo's showed the world soccer can be played with passion and constant skill, not just kick the kick or how you can fall over and roll around the ground in faked agony when the TV shows you never even got touched. Look what happened to the socceroo's, cheated. Who wants a game like that as the major sporting attraction
Posted by The alchemist, Monday, 3 July 2006 9:42:02 AM
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I've played soccer since I was a kid and I've lived in Brazil for seven years, but I still find the round ball game pretty dull to watch, except when it is played exceptionally well (like France against Brazil, for example). I think Brazilian club soccer is a bore, but there are millions who will disagree with me. I think most of the World Cup games have been insufferably tedious, but there are hundreds of millions who will disagree with that.

I would much rather watch Super14 rugby, Australian League, any AFL match you care to name, a decent spot of one day cricket or, if I had the time, an Ashes Test. Is that a problem? Why are so many people so keen to manipulate sports as a means of social engineering? Do we really need a brand-name national identity based on green and gold t-ishirts at international sporting event?
Posted by Ian, Monday, 3 July 2006 10:26:42 AM
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Soccer isn't much of a spectacle. The boredom that ensues leads to violence, and when (as this article's author points out) you have the "not-so-educated" classes following it, it's not surprising. All I can say is I hope Australia never does well at this game, as Aussies will faithfully follow it just out of duty. It's not a true world game either, it's really just Europe vs the European dominated South America, the other teams in most cases just "make up the numbers". Pity an interesting sport that rarely, if ever, leads to crowd violence couldn't have "taken over the world" (ie. Aussie Rules)
Posted by hadz, Monday, 3 July 2006 10:32:18 AM
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"Perhaps we will even begin to call it football."

Some appropriate cliches: Over my dead body, Tanveer, not until they prise the oval ball from my cold, dead fingers and I follow Aussie Rules AND I vote.....anyone may feel free to add their own cliches.

Aussie rules is a fast high scoring game. There is little to no violence by fans - many are the times I have exchanged witty repartee with supporters of the other side to mine - I have never experienced aggression. The most physical after game behaviour has been a kick of the footy regardless of whose team won. When the round-ball game can achieve the same, then I might even deign to even watch an entire match.

Until then, Aussie Rules, RULES
Posted by Scout, Monday, 3 July 2006 11:12:55 AM
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Ozie Ozie Ozie Rules Rules Rules,
The soccer is already forgotten and interest has swung back to our real games Aussie rules, and to a lesser extent the various rugby codes. The author needs to get out of Sydney more often. Aussie rules is our national Winter sport. it's played in all states with TAS, Vic, SA and WA being the main ones. There are teams from NSW and QLD as well at the moment 500,000 people in Australian are none competing members of Footie clubs in Australia, Soccer can't even get on a free to air commercial station. You pass over the fact that just about all nationalities are playing this game that the author dismissed. Go to a footy game you'll love it.
Posted by Kenny, Monday, 3 July 2006 12:35:01 PM
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Yep

Soccer united Australians for a few hours.

Do a spot check, ask around. Who are the quarter-finalists in the world cup? Only a few who know.

Ask who beat Carlton or how the Swans went or ...

Ask what international match will be played on saturday afternoon ... overseas. Ask who captains Australia.

Ask who knocked off the Raiders or the Sharkies the on the weekend. That'll give you an insight into the popularity of the relative sports ... among males and females.

Have a bopeep at the players lists for many of these teams. Check out the names. More than a few are 'ethnic' origin. Amazing really.
Try going to a Doggies game, then an Origin Match.

Yep soccer did unite Australians but so do other sports, most for much more than a few hours.

Cricket is a fine game that not only displays talent but to win requires a fearful grasp and use of tactics. Luck plays far less a part in obtaining a result than it does in soccer.

But you want to see Australians united ... criticise them and their icons. Aussies rules and league are two. Or ignore or belittle their contributions in literature, law, the arts, sciences and numerous other fields of human endeavour.

Mate everyone celebrated winning the Americas cup. It was one of the greatest sporting and technological feats the world has witnessed.

Btw Phar Lap was an immigrant and a transient one at that. I prefer the Aussie bred filly that won three Melbourne Cups and Cox Plate. Name her? ... Bet you cannot.

Your assertion about Australians being united against the Iraqi liberation is wrong.

Australian Nationalism has roots deeper than those sprouted by sporting achievements or by the the tolerance and multiculturalism 'discovered' only in the last couple of decades.

You'll see future generations of Australians from most ethnic backgrounds united in defending the values and culture of Australia.

While modern influences will modify the look of that culture most of the historical, tried and tested underlying values, strenghts and characteristic's won't change.

We won't let it!
Posted by keith, Monday, 3 July 2006 12:46:36 PM
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reality check average attendance A league soccer 11,000 grand final 42,000 AFL average attendance 35,000 grand final 90,000. The Swan have had more to a normal game then attended the soccer grand final.
Posted by Kenny, Monday, 3 July 2006 12:48:28 PM
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Multiculturalism in Australia has certainly been successful if success means the introduction of alien cultures intent on remaining alien. Laws and scare campaigns from the multiculturalists have just about succeeded in making real the myth that there has never been an Australian culture. We are now Anglo-Saxons or Anglo-Celts: just one of many cultures contributing to Australia. Forget that there was an Australian culture in the 19th century that laid the foundations, institutions, laws and freedoms all ready for immigrants to benefit from when they arrived.

Not much tolerance and respect there for Australian culture.

Now the push is on to finish the job through sport, removing more of Australian culture to cater for the ‘ethnic’ tastes. More respect!

But, who ever said that Australia should be respected? We allowed multiculturalism to happen. Our politicians know that we are not interested in things that really matter. We got what we deserved. Your idea to finish off the job through sport is a jolly good one from the point of view of those who want to change Australia beyond recognition. Our pro-multicultural politicians of all shades love to identify with sport – even the ludicrously unlikely Prime Minister; remember that embarrassing attempt at bowling? (My apologies for mentioning non-ethnic cricket)

The pathetic hysteria – mostly caused by alcohol – during Australia’s failed attempt at this peculiar game indicates that you are on to a winner. People who can get excited about sport don’t have the brains to care too much about anything else. This obsession with sport is most certainly “negative” and “anti-intellectual”. But only “some” Australians, as you say, see it that way. Not enough of us to worry about. Some of us also see that this sporting mania leaves an intellectual vacuum in Australia which allows devious politicians to force on us such crap policies as multiculturalism, lowering of educational standards, dual citizenship, foreign workers, and all of the other nonsense wrecking Australia. What more could you and you fellow multiculturalists wish for?

Give us big screen TV and an endless supply of VB, and she’ll be right mate
Posted by Leigh, Monday, 3 July 2006 2:12:10 PM
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BB Part One

As a an oldie who has always been an Aussie Rules freak who regarded looking at soccer as worse than the waiting for the proverbial grass to grow. But taking more note of the footwork, heading and so forth from both soccer sides during the World Cup, one kind of forgot about goal scores, and gained great interest in the ball-skills, etc.

Furthermore, one was reminded how world soccer revives an interest that is really nothing new among social historians, that competitive sport generally should be an opportune way of creating better fellowship between nations It was even talked about in the late 1930s with German Nazism well on the go, and even there were suggestions that the Berlin games might ward off war. But of course they did not, far from it, only proving a show-off for the verbal and parade-power of the Nazi Reichstag.

But certainly there is that about playing with a soccer-ball that is different. To be sure, because it is a round ball of measured size and weight that suits the average instep, it is the ideal ball for kids to kick around, and the ideal shape and size for poor native kids to do the tricks they love to learn in order to prove themselves - not so much show-pony stuff like with us whites, but a genuine means of gaining a spirit that is so much needed to replace the ability to handle a machete or an AK-47
Posted by bushbred, Monday, 3 July 2006 6:53:30 PM
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BB Part Two
There is also among those who have grown tired of cries of freedom and democracy not so much from non-whites, but from the wealthiest of US whites as if the shown proof that they are wealthy is really the way to go for freedom for backward nations.

It would be so interesting to really probe deep into the mind of Shirin Ebadi an Iranian practising Attorney of Law, who though unpopular because she is always on about Iran becoming more democratic, her democracy must be very unlike that of America, because she regards the US as the country which barged in during the early 1950s mostly for oil, as if her former land of Persia was some waiting-to-be-annexed backwater or suchlike.

So maybe Americana which has been running downhill in popularity ever since its wonderful gifting of the Marshall Plan, might turn totally to soccer instead of gridiron football - and in so doing might discover the style of democracy that Shirin Ebadi talks about and indeed what the new American Superman is on about - which they say is not by a long chalk the old American way, but right now what all the world’s discerning anti-Americans really wish for
Posted by bushbred, Monday, 3 July 2006 7:01:05 PM
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Soccer has to smarten up refereeing by using the video ref at crucial moments in the game.It is all to easy for a single decision in such a low scoring game to be determined by the bias or blindness of the ref.What is the point of having a flowing game when the end result is so dubious and soul destroying?

We need to also make the frequency of scoring higher to get fairer results and reduce the anger and tension in the crowd.This is one of the reasons why soccer crowds are so violent.Over 150 yrs,goal keepers have got taller and more professional however the goal posts have stayed constant.Penalties should also be taken further out to make scoring a 25% chance,rather than 95% chance.

FIFA is locked in a time warp of tradition and can learn a lot from the evolution of Australian Sports.Lets hope this match fixing criminal behaviour involving Italy's four top clubs makes FIFA think about the evolution of it's game.

I don't want to watch another FIFA refereeing farce at the next world cup.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 3 July 2006 7:07:19 PM
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Memo to Tanveer: what's with the gaping chip on your shoulder?

Did you have a bad experience at Ballymore or something, Tanveer? I haven't been to a rugby match in Queensland for a long time but the last time I did, rather than '...sipping wine, peering occasionally towards the electronic scoreboard' or talking about shares, I was sitting on the Hill, with a can of coke and a sausage roll.

Sadly the chip on the shoulder's still alive and well when considering the mullet factor at league matches - come join us Queenslander expats in a smart pub in the Sydney CBD on Wednesday night and I'm guessing the ugg boot count will take place on one hand.

But the pearler was cricket - basically its crime is that its too Anglo for new arrivals and 'remote'. Tell that to its followers all over the Commonwealth - which makes up a third of the planet. And I don't understand the non-Anglo complaint that Australia's British heritage is 'remote'. How can it be when it is part of pretty much every part of Australian life? It's not something ossified, but an every day reality. A NESB elderly parent who migrated under the family reunion scheme is as much an beneficiary of this heritage as a sixth-generation Anglo-Australian.

I cheered on the Socceroos along with everyone else - but I didn't feel a need to knock other codes and sports because of hangups.
Posted by Alexander Drake, Monday, 3 July 2006 10:20:01 PM
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Actually there are only two cultures OF SIGNIFICANCE in Australia.

The Rugby and Rugby League followers on one side, supporting a game where points have to be earned through skill, cunning, strength and going through your opponents defence

And on the other side Melbourne Rules players and supporters: a game, according to historian Geoffrey Blainey, that was invented to suit the mid-19c mercantile nature of Victorian society, where anything goes and it was quite acceptable to seek to go over your opponents rather than having to face them full on, a game with no offside rule and no send off, meaning that a player could not be penalised in the game for cheating and unmanly play. Rugby, a game where the hands can be used to catch and throw, and tackle an opponent to the ground, and Melbourne Rules where the prime aim seems to be burying your knees in an opponents back mid air.

Whatever other cultures exist in this country are on the sideline to these two codes, the manly one of Rugby and the beat your opponent by bi-passing him of Melbourne Rules.

Soccer doesn't have a clue. It is a game for those who consider talking to be more important than action, like a 90 minute conversation where nothing is actually said: no wonder women and men from the more voluble 'cultures' enjoy it.
Posted by Hamlet, Tuesday, 4 July 2006 12:25:44 AM
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Rugby (Union or League) is to UGLY as Soccer is to BORING (and I'm not talking about the Rugby players, though you could count that too).
Posted by hadz, Tuesday, 4 July 2006 12:46:20 AM
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Aussie rules rules - sure. In about 4 states in a small country. Bring on the Aussie Rules world cup. It would be like the US baseball world series. Of course, Rugby Union has a world cup, as does Cricket. How many countries actually play those sports, again? And then there is a Rugby League world cup (snigger).

Look, nothing wrong with these games, really. Just that, compared to football (the one code truly capable of being called that) they are SMALL TIME. And beneath the bluster of the foregoing posts, that is the point that irks everyone deep down. They may be our sports, but hardly anyone else wants to play.
Posted by PK, Tuesday, 4 July 2006 9:38:57 PM
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Doesn't bother me at all that Aussie Rules is small, there's hardly a nation that could find people that wouldn't be too scared to play it. Look at the pathetic player reactions to small collisions in Soccer, and you'll see that there's very few other nations that could stand the pain of REAL footy. ;)
Posted by hadz, Tuesday, 4 July 2006 10:30:08 PM
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Hatz wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all that Aussie Rules is small, there's hardly a nation that could find people that wouldn't be too scared to play it. Look at the pathetic player reactions to small collisions in Soccer, and you'll see that there's very few other nations that could stand the pain of REAL footy. ;)

I have yet to see a real tackle in your 'real footy', When a Melbourne Rules player can face up to a charging 120k opposition player who is determined to go through him rather than just kick the ball over him you can tell me about pain in 'football'.

Melbourne Rules - the original name - a game designed to keep cricketers fit in winter.... not even invented for its own sake.
Posted by Hamlet, Tuesday, 4 July 2006 11:43:23 PM
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Soccer is a great game for kids. It's really simple, so any 8 year old can understand the rules, and it requires virtually no physical stamina.

Ironically, the very things that make it good for kids make it dull for adults. Unfortunately, hundreds of millions of people around the world have never been exposed to sports that are physically demanding for the players and intellectually stimulating for the spectators, so they don't know what they are missing out on.

The fact that hundreds of millions of people are obsessed with soccer does not make it interesting, just popular. Hundreds of millions of people read Paulo Coelho too, but that doesn't make it great literature.
Posted by Ian, Wednesday, 5 July 2006 2:40:29 AM
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Hamlet wrote:
"I have yet to see a real tackle in your 'real footy', When a Melbourne Rules player can face up to a charging 120k opposition player who is determined to go through him rather than just kick the ball over him you can tell me about pain in 'football'."

You've obviously never watched Aussie rules properly, if you've never seen a charging player hit another player in AFL, plus the speeds your 120kg guys get up to, as opposed to AFL 95kg (all muscle) guys...well, the comparison is laughable, the momentum of a 120kg Rugby player run-walking (that's the best description I could come up with) towards the opposition defensive line is nothing compared to a tackler going full pelt in AFL getting hit by a shepherd (blindsided), much much bigger collision.

By the way, the thing that you're derisively calling "Melbourne Rules" is far bigger than League or Union in this country, just because it was INVENTED HERE unlike Rugby (I'm talking Australia, as apart from Melbourne) doesn't mean it's any less of a game than one invented elsewhere, or do you subscribe to the Prime Minister's philosophy that we should just get our innovation from overseas.
Posted by hadz, Wednesday, 5 July 2006 8:35:57 AM
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WORLD CUP NEWS

SEMI FINAL

Italy versus Germany

Half Time Score:

NIL ALL

And that, folks, sums up soccer.
Posted by Scout, Wednesday, 5 July 2006 8:40:56 AM
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Hadz

Melboune Rules was the original name of the game:

From http://www.vandyaussierules.com/aussierules.htm

The game this group drew up became known as Melbourne Rules Football. The rules which most differentiated it from variations of rugby were rule six, which allowed and defined a mark and the resultant free kick, and rule eight, which said the ball could be carried when marked or caught from a bounce. It could not be lifted from the ground.

A few years later, the rule forcing players to bounce the ball every 10 metres was introduced. By 1866, Melbourne Rules Football had been accepted as Victorian Rules Football and much later as Australian Football.

To see a team of Melbourne Rules players alongside a team of Rugby players is like comparing light middleweight boxers with heavyweights. Both are lean, but the Rugby players have a much greater level of overall muscle mass. That is simply a function of the game, if Melbourne Rules had a requirement for heavily muscled players to physically overcome each other, then the players would look like Rugby players, but as I said before, the idea is to go over your opposition, not face them tackle after tackle.
Posted by Hamlet, Wednesday, 5 July 2006 9:05:23 AM
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Scout: half time score nil all Italy v Germany yes. Full time score ditto. Score after an enthralling 30 minutes of extra time Italy 2-0. Come on, if you couldn't find some excitement in that match, I would call you so biased against Football that you should probably never watch it.

In rugby codes and AFL, sure, there is plenty of scoring by half time. But, if you see a half time score of say, 28-6, is there genuinely any interest in the second half of the match? Likewise in cricket, say in 1 day games, the side batting 1st gets say 250 (which may be pretty good to watch) but the side batting second falls to 6/120, the rest of the innings usually becoming a pretty dull survival affair. Any sport at all will have its highlights and lowlights.

The biggest blight on football is the diving and once again the Italians got away with too much. I agree with some posters here that diving/acting does not occur to the same extent in other contact sports, but that is certainly not to say that it does not occur at all.

The real interest in today's game was that this is the WORLD CUP. The world's premier sporting event. No-one wants to lose it, so sure plenty of these games will be tense and tight. To me, this spectacle on the world's stage is far better and more exciting than anything any of Australia's favourite sports can put up.
Posted by PK, Wednesday, 5 July 2006 11:55:30 AM
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Hey PK - you're right I don't watch it - tried but too slow, boring. Prefer a game that moves me during the game itself - not at the end with a desperation shoot-out. No wonder people beat each other up after it.

I do appreciate the skills however, now if they increased the size of the goal area.... then maybe I would watch. However, must confess to parochialism, I grew up with Aussies Rules, why should I turn my back on a game I and many other Australians enjoy? Aussie Rules is an important part of my culture, also it is a damned fine game. Cricket is Australian too, however, I find it even more boring than soccer. So there you go, PK. Not about to change my stripes on this one.

Aussie Aussie Aussies OY OY OY - whatever game you prefer.

Regards

Dianne
Posted by Scout, Thursday, 6 July 2006 11:59:34 AM
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Scout, seems you didn't actually watch the Germany v Italy game - shame for you, a damn fine match. Not so Italy v Portugal, unfortunately. France v Italy should be a cracker though - both teams should be all out to win - allez La France!

Aussie rules I was not brought up on and don't fully get, but I can appreciate a good example of the game. Rugby League can be fine - there are fewer finer sporting contests than the annual State of Origin as last night's series decider in Melbourne showed. And then there is the Tour de France, one of the few genuine world sports where Australians really excel (and, it would be nice to think, drug unassisted). So, I think it is best to try to keep an open mind about sport as in other things and not be limited to what you were brought up on. That way, you can choose to view the very cream of a number of sports instead of confiining yourself to a small number of sports and therefore being left with a fair share of humdrum matches.
Posted by PK, Thursday, 6 July 2006 9:51:28 PM
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PK

Did I not promote "any game of your choice"? See previous post.

AND I admitted not watching the Italy/German game to its conclusion because boredom set in. See previous post.

While I explained my love for Aussie Rules I did not say I disregard ALL other sports. Sheesh!

I find soccer boring, OK?
and as previously stated I find cricket boring too - you're not having a hissy fit over that too are you?

You know, before making a post intent on point scoring I suggest you read the post you wish to attack FIRST.

For the record I follow:

Le Tour
Tennis
Aussie Rules (of course)
Basketball
Netball

You just don't like the fact that not all people enjoy soccer the way you do. Well diff'rent strokes mate. Get over it.
Posted by Scout, Friday, 7 July 2006 8:47:50 AM
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That is a truly excellent article.
Posted by jamesmassola, Wednesday, 12 July 2006 12:36:03 AM
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The alchemist wrote:
"You will also note the current world cup has lots of violence on the streets of Germany, certainly a violent ethnic sport. "

That's hilarious mate.
I was at the World Cup. I saw more violence in my first 24 hours back in Australia than I saw in 17 days in Germany. You idiot...!
Posted by CleverBobby, Thursday, 10 August 2006 10:58:17 AM
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