David, we seem to be hung up on some irreconcilable differences here.

Apparently we will have to agree to strongly disagree on the connection between immigration in Australia and GHG emissions, or the links between population and greenhouse gases being tenuous, or that GHG objectives must be purely global.

Given these enormous differences, I don’t know what else to say, except that I completely fail to understand how you can insist that population matters are of such little consequence.

No offence, but unfortunately I can see no point in continuing this debate with you.

No problem. Thanks for the discussion.

Did any one else notice that in the Breaking News this morning there was an article by Bob Kinnaird from Monash University. The report said that 5000+ IT professionals migrated as graduate skilled migration in 2004-2005. The graduates were paid considerably less than local hires. This high level of GSM migration resulted in fewer australian graduates being hired. In fact only 30% of IT graduates secured IT jobs. No one cares how the 70% pay off their HECS debt or where they find work.

As an emminent sociologist once said "if only 10% of a population experience the problem, the fault probably lies with the individual but when 50% of the population face the same problem then its probably a systemic fault."

So if we can't find jobs for our graduates from university and technical college why do we need to import more of the same?

Billie,

Those 5000+ IT professionals, do you suggest it was their fault?

- Would those professionals refuse to receive a better pay?

- Is it their fault that they happened to be lucky enough to have a profession that the Australian government wants while their friends were left behind? if required, would they not agree to work, for example, in cleaning or aged-care, just so they can escape the troubled countries where they come from and/or be allowed to live with their relatives in Australia?

Does anything prevent Australian graduates from asking to be paid less? or take up another job that does not pay as well? obviously you know that nobody is asked to pay their HECS debt until they have a decent gainful job.

I have no interest to encourage economic migration, but do you really believe that people in other countries think only about economics, just because in Australia we are so spoiled that we have no bigger concerns?

I do not mind that immigrants are given conditions, such as "you may not work in these professions" or "you may not live in crowded areas, such as Sydney", etc. There is nothing wrong with denying immigrants economic privileges in order to test them, so they prove that their motives for arriving are genuine and not economic - so long as every good person is allowed to come and live in this continent.

Thanks billie (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4603#48914) for raising a subject so close to my own heart.

The treatment of Australia's IT graduates epitomises that absolute contempt that this Government and our elites hold for many of the citizens of this country. Whilst Australian IT graduates languish on unemployed queues or in dead end unskilled occupations with their skills being atrophied, the country continues to be overwhelmed with overseas IT professionals.

On this issue the 'hard left' has shown itself to be little better than the Howard Government. Throughout these years they have acted to stifle any rational debate on this question by hysterically accusing anyone, who questions high immigration levels and population growth, of racism.

No Yuyutsu I do not think its the 5000 migrants fault for taking australian jobs. I think its the responsibility of the government to look after australian citizens who have got off their backsides and got a degree. In much the same way as I expect to look after myself first then look out for other people

Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer was recorded in the Herald Sun in December 2000 as promoting "lets send all the IT jobs to India". This is at a time when there were record numbers of students enrolled in IT courses at university and only 20% of the students from the best universities were being hired. From one typical second tier university only 5 graduates were hired.

So what do we expect our young educated graduates to do, work as waiters?

Then we get Mr Howard saying this government is family friendly offering a $4000 baby bonus and Peter Costello exhorting every one to have 3 children. Why would some one who expected to work as a professional and finds themself doing unskilled work want to have 3 children? Most people want to give their children better opportunities than they had.

Back to IT migration there are systemic problems with IT recruiters who misrepresent jobs to candiadtes and candidates to prospective employers. IT recruiters gain more money from placing GSM workers on visas than from placing local hires. Also the Australian Graduate School of Management gaining $12 million per annum to studying the IT skills shortage. If AGSM find no shortage they lose $12 million.

But when I see migrant workers sneering at the "lazy" australians on public transport I'm afraid my eyes fill with hate, and I concur with Eric Claus that the australian standard of living would be improved without graduate skilled migration.