Saintfletcher, Condamine is the working title of a potential new inland state covering the Darling Downs and Maranoa in Southern Queensland. It may or may not include Toowoomba depending on whether that city sees it's future as part of the SEQ conurbation or as part of it's region.

And I agree on the need for a third way in politics. The cities have their "left" and "right" factions that reflect their two predominant communities but this dichotomy is of marginal relevance in the bush. The Nationals sometimes come over as agrarian socialists who promote free markets because smaller communities do not nurture differentiated policy.

In small towns the welfare dependent is your Aunt, the capitalist is your Brother-in-law, the worker is your neighbours son, the community builder is your best mate from school, and they are all on your footy team. And that makes it a lot harder to simply pidgeon-hole their needs and aspirations as is so often done in the city.

The country community can always put a face and a personal circumstance to an issue and those circumstances require solutions that don't always fit the urban perceptual contraints.

To impose those contraints in the wrong circumstances is a recipe for bucolicide.

Perseus,

Some of what you say is interesting, but isn't it really all based on fallacious stereotypes about both city and country people? The purported happy smilnig helpful agrarian culture has been well and truly studied in Australia (grab a copy of "Smalltown") and shown up to have stratified, exclusivist, isolating elements, particularly for those who don't conform to the social expectations of the majority. Hell, you don't need the reasearch to prove it to you. Go into any Queensland town: for them, the world is divided into locals, how are treated one way, and "everybody else", who are treated another.

And yet, at the same time, there is an expectation that "the city", whatever that means, and "metrotyrants" (what a cool world. Is there a Metrotyrants club? Can I join?) will go out of their way to accommodate country lifestyles and values. Why should country people expect more consideration than they are prepared to show to others?

The "new state" movements have been around for donkey's years. I'd almost love to see them try - because it would show up just how dependant most country areas have become, on "metrotyrants" like me who pay taxes knowing that an unjustifiable proportion goes to propping up rural Australia.

Now, I'm sure this post will attract heaps of amusing moral indignation. But have I been any more narrow in my views than the pro-country posters in this thread?

Anth

Good, Anth, so if you are so certain that you and yours have been propping up rural Australia then you should be the first to vote in favour of new regional states.

That way NewSydGong and SunBrisGold can take their share of GST funds and spend it as they already do and the regions can take their share and spend it on their own priorities.

And you won't have to hear any more 'wingeing' from the bush because our decision makers will be in a local capital. We won't have to compete for metro media space because our issues would be fully aired in our newly revamped local media.

And our decision makers would actually know what the issues are. So if it would be doing you and yours such a big favour, why do you continually scoff at the notion?

We all know very well that rural economies are drained of funds in direct proportion to their share of metropolitan budget overheads.

Caarnnn, Anth. Can I sign you up as a supporter?

Hmmm, interesting point raised above in Queensland bashing. I have lived in 12 NSW rural communities and about 3 remote Far North Queensland communities. Guess what. The Queensland communities brought me in as family, welcomed my contributions for the skills that I had to offer, and I respected their unique ways. I wasn't a local, never pretended to be. Once we understood I was true blue and dinky di, and they were really not that different to me all was cool. I never had any aires or graces, I just did my job, drank at the pub, shared lots of jokes, we got along just fine.

A few NSW isolated rural communities I really miss, my family live there. I live in Sydney not by choice, but by necessity. I am happy here, but I would be happier with my family in the country. There are a few isolated communities closer to Sydney, however, that were a living hell. They were constantly suspicious, rude, unfriendly, I couldn't wait to leave. The weather was even lousy.

So it is all relative. I don't know if I am country or city. I respect the difference. One thing I learnt from FNQ was that they had less problems with professional Sydney people offering their services, living there for some time, than Brisbane people. I guess there was the feeling that Brisbane neglects FNQ, that they are arrogant to them and simply don't care. I could see that in the patronising attitude people from Brisbane that lived there, treated the locals with. The rivalry I think is more internally within Queensland. When the State of Origin came on the Television, I just shut my mouth. That is good manners "whilst in Rome". Thats just sport, and we all like to have a laugh about that old chestnut.

Can't quite sign me up, Perseus. Two reasons:

First, hey maybe I'm th only one who can't see it, but I am not convinced that rural Australia is drained of funds in proportion to metropolitan overheads (I may not have the quote just right there - you can't see previous posts while posting on these discussion boards). I would have thought the flow of capital was the other way round, once you take into account things like roads (many more kilometres per person out there to be paid for), diesel fuel rebates, single desk policies propping up prices, dodgy family trusts to get out of paying tax and maximise welfare income, the costs of providing public schools to country areas, the costs of providing telecommunications to country areas, cost of rural railroads (remember the outcry when Goss tried to shut down the ones which were costing a packet) etc etc etc.

If any rural industry is propping up Australia it's the mining industry.

The other reason you can't sign me up is the beastie called the Commonwealth Grants Commission. How long would it be before NQ and Condamine were at the Grants Commission bleating in a Tasmania-like way about the need for more than their fair share because they're the "true" Australia except that they're poor because all the other states are bludging off them?

While we're at it, would these new states excpect to have Senators? How many? If you're trying to sell the idea of the current area of Queensland going from 12 Senators to 36, good luck! And you can't take any away from Queensland, because it is an original state so its Senators are guaranteed. Then of course you need to find double the number of House of Reps members (see Constitution s.24). And on any fair population distribution, guess where those extra seats would go? Sydney, Melbourne and SEQ!

Interesting thread though :)

Anth

Good points, Anth. About 15 % of GDP goes to state budgets and at least 20% of each department's budget goes to head office overheads and centralised operating costs that only circulate within the metropolitan economy.

This amounts to an annual leakage of 3% of the regional economy (ie 20% of 15% = 3%). That means the regional economy must grow by 3% a year to maintain their status quo.

To calculate the long term impact of this leakage just take out your calculator, key in 0.97 and multiply by 1 and then hit the equal button 20 times and you will be left with 0.54 which is the size of the local economy in 20 years time if there are no compensating payments. This is exacerbated by leakage of statutory super contributions that used to be wages spent in local economies but are now centralised, with half invested overseas.

That is why regional economies with no compensating "sea change" or mining investment are in decline. It is structural and far outweighs any efficiency gains from centralised government. In Qld the SE corner is 2/3rds of the population so the metropolitan economy will grow by 1.5% a year without even getting out of bed.

The grants commission makes payments based on variations in the cost of delivering services. In Qld the major element in that cost variance is the cost of flying bureaucrats all over a large state to discover what a local decision maker would already know. At the moment, Beattie gets additional funds from the feds but there is serious doubt that the funds actually get to the regions.

New state capitals will be much closer to their constituents and the cost variance will be lower. And unlike Tasmania, no new states will need compensation for the cost of Bass Straight, the major cause of their cost variance.

The number of Senators has already been solved wrt ACT and NT. First allocate HOReps seats based on population quotas and then give them half as many Senators or a minimum of two.

Rural roads are funded by council rates.