Bob Katter is a maverick but he is a passionate man. He does what he sees as the best thing for Kennedy.

Maybe he will form the New Country Party and the Nationals will become an irrelevance. (Or are they already irrelevant).

It is well past time that Aussies have a new energetic believable party. It is also well past time that the the tired old Democrats, Labor and Greens were placed in dusty old drawers in a museum where no one would ever disturb them and they could be forgotten in a very short time.
Katter seems dinkum. I have always thought of him as good material going to waste. Perhaps if some of the zombies who inhabit the parliament were properly dealt with, we could get some new life with a bit of zing.

Labor in a museum?
Is that the same Labor that reigns in all States and Territories?
Is that the same Labor ahead in the federal polls 52%----48% 2pp?

Katter has something to offer?

These posts have the intellectual rigour of the lead article. NONE.

I think somebody already formed the New Country Party... not much success at all.

David, it is a wonder you journalists have not studied Asustralian politics during the Great Depression. Important points to remember as one who lived it as a sixteen year old working on the farm. Incidently my father was secretary cum president of the Dalwallinu Cockie's Union as it was called, a sworn enemy of the Primary Producer's association, because it was too tied in with in with Big Biz, the old monika for today's corporates.

It is so interesting that the Cockie's Unionists won the battle. Pollard, who incidently was a Labor Prime Minister passed a guaranteed wheat price protecting the cost of production, as anyone with a politics degree surely knows, but unfortunately not always our elected representatives.

The important point for most of us oldies ia that Big Biz is the farmer's enemy, as can also be the left-wing worker's unions.

Thus the producer is left by himself, and must always look after himself with wheat boards, potato boards, etc. Further, an example of Big Biz doing the dirty has been the rorting of the dairy farmers over here in WA who are near broke, and are only being saved by the value of their pasture-lands which can be used for other purposes.

Something us oldies learnt in the Depression was never trust the middle-men, they are worse than Jew wool buyers, not that we have to hate the Israelis, but it is a lesson learnt.

Agrarian socialism is the only way a farmer can be protected, whether it be right-wing or left-wing - not that it has to be Nazism or communism.

Please take a lesson, you young journalists, farming and Big Biz cannot mix, because it is always the cockie who gets caught.

This piece really does show the interesting place OO holds in discourse. As a relatively lightweight op-ed piece by an independent journo, it's not a bad read. the jokes pretty much work, and the language reads well.

As a serious piece though, it is pretty miserable and shows a pretty poor understanding of the Nationals, the Liberals, state politics, federal politics, local connectional and electoral factors, and the history and political behavours of both Katter and Joyce.

In my view, Katter is the perfect response to an isolated electorate. He has deep connectional ties with both community influentials and community non-influentials. He is seen as the champion of his community against a Brisbane government which doesn't understand north queensland, and a Canberra government which doesn't understand queensland. (Before anyone takes issue, I'm asserting that those are the value of his voters; they are not necessarily mine). The fact that his "championing" is not necessarily successful, is beside the point. If the Nationals had had any sense, they would have kept katter on the longest lead possible, allowing him to assert his local values even against party policy. They couldn't, so he left - and he will keep winning because he remains the connectionalist champion of that community.

Joyce is following a similar path, making similar cases to a similar voter base. How many people see Joyce as "our bloke down there in Canberra, telling those federal idiots how it is?" A fair few, I'd wager. And how many think the same of Boswell? Any takers?

The true test for the Nationals will be whether they have learned from the Katter experience. If they have, they will do everything in their power to avoid making Barnaby choose between what's good for Queensland and what's good for the Nationals - because the odds are he'll go for the former, even if it costs him preselection. Remember, he's got five years left in office.

Anth

Hey BushBred, who the hell was Pollard? I have looked and looked but he sure wasn't a Prime Minister.

David,
In speaking of echoes from the past, don't forget his father's jingoist bumpkin attempts to try to have the Army's newly purchased Kiowa helicopters renamed "Kalkadoon". Does it run in the family?

Actually Ponder, Bob Catter's father was a decent gentleman that could teach his son some manners. Bob Catter senior was an intellectual, and made a stand for real farmers who needed help.

Some old country party people did have manners and principles. while I agree with the arguement someone made about agrarian socialism, the word use: "Jew wool buyers" is offensive. We can only guess you mean the multinationals. Trying to excuse yourself by supporting Israel did not excuse your prejudice, it confirmed it. The fact is many Jews do not support Israel at all. Many Palestinians are infact Jewish.

The Nationals should have broken with the liberals over the US Free Trade agreement, as farmers get the bum steer. Many farmers just refuse to realise it yet. The US will do anything to abolish the AWB, the CSR, the Wool Board, or any other organisation that looks like Australia subsidising farm products. The Liberals have to prove to the Americans now that all support to farmers is being "privatised". With friends like that, do farmers need enemies?

The Queenslanders ran the wrong direction at the wrong time. They nearly got tarred by the same bush that is destined for the crumbling PM facing serious trouble.

As the PM crumbles, step back. You don't stand under the falling debris. Joyce is the hope for the party. Bob Catter Jr. is just as unpredictable, as he always was...

Bushbred, at last a cockie that has woken up to big bizznesss taking the cockies to the cleaners.
How many of you still stump up cash(probably sponged from the taxpaying Trade Unionists, by way of Gov. handout)to the National Farmers Federation?
This organisation spends its time trying to whack the very people the silly cockies should be aligning with.

Katter and Joyce both understand the importance of product differentiation and both the media and the mainstream parties came in spinner. They do, after all, represent an entirely different community of interest to the barbie worlders. And the mainstream urge to demand conformity from these guys merely highlights the extent to which the mainstream is out of touch with rural Australia.

Bob would make an excellent Premier of North Queensland while Barnaby would do just as well for the new state of Condamine. They could then direct their communities funds to properly investigating the sort of issues that remain buried, or misinformed, by the metrotyrants.

You might have a point there persius. At least they listen to people. Condamine? What is that?

I think that if the Nationals were let off their leash, they could be a progressive party for farmers, small business, and for everyone else who are ignored by the two parties that only care for multi-national business, or multi-national unions. Who is there listening to the people, other than the Greens, the few Democrats we have left, and some independents? I have said before that even David in the Big Brother household: a proud member of the National Party, would listen more, stand for justice, and be more honest than most politicians on both sides of Parliament. It would be fascinating if he does take up a career in the National Party, probably more popular in Brisbane, I would imagine. He is certainly a media icon at the moment. Of course, I'm not sure it the Nationals would embrace David in Big Brother's house. I think the film "Brokeback Mountain" frightens the hell out them. But in reality, the David's in the National Party are just farmers.

Will the Nationals insist on being a single sided neo-con party, for the sake of tradition? Or will they steel the show by daring to play left field? Now that would really be exciting.

Saintfletcher, Condamine is the working title of a potential new inland state covering the Darling Downs and Maranoa in Southern Queensland. It may or may not include Toowoomba depending on whether that city sees it's future as part of the SEQ conurbation or as part of it's region.

And I agree on the need for a third way in politics. The cities have their "left" and "right" factions that reflect their two predominant communities but this dichotomy is of marginal relevance in the bush. The Nationals sometimes come over as agrarian socialists who promote free markets because smaller communities do not nurture differentiated policy.

In small towns the welfare dependent is your Aunt, the capitalist is your Brother-in-law, the worker is your neighbours son, the community builder is your best mate from school, and they are all on your footy team. And that makes it a lot harder to simply pidgeon-hole their needs and aspirations as is so often done in the city.

The country community can always put a face and a personal circumstance to an issue and those circumstances require solutions that don't always fit the urban perceptual contraints.

To impose those contraints in the wrong circumstances is a recipe for bucolicide.

Perseus,

Some of what you say is interesting, but isn't it really all based on fallacious stereotypes about both city and country people? The purported happy smilnig helpful agrarian culture has been well and truly studied in Australia (grab a copy of "Smalltown") and shown up to have stratified, exclusivist, isolating elements, particularly for those who don't conform to the social expectations of the majority. Hell, you don't need the reasearch to prove it to you. Go into any Queensland town: for them, the world is divided into locals, how are treated one way, and "everybody else", who are treated another.

And yet, at the same time, there is an expectation that "the city", whatever that means, and "metrotyrants" (what a cool world. Is there a Metrotyrants club? Can I join?) will go out of their way to accommodate country lifestyles and values. Why should country people expect more consideration than they are prepared to show to others?

The "new state" movements have been around for donkey's years. I'd almost love to see them try - because it would show up just how dependant most country areas have become, on "metrotyrants" like me who pay taxes knowing that an unjustifiable proportion goes to propping up rural Australia.

Now, I'm sure this post will attract heaps of amusing moral indignation. But have I been any more narrow in my views than the pro-country posters in this thread?

Anth

Good, Anth, so if you are so certain that you and yours have been propping up rural Australia then you should be the first to vote in favour of new regional states.

That way NewSydGong and SunBrisGold can take their share of GST funds and spend it as they already do and the regions can take their share and spend it on their own priorities.

And you won't have to hear any more 'wingeing' from the bush because our decision makers will be in a local capital. We won't have to compete for metro media space because our issues would be fully aired in our newly revamped local media.

And our decision makers would actually know what the issues are. So if it would be doing you and yours such a big favour, why do you continually scoff at the notion?

We all know very well that rural economies are drained of funds in direct proportion to their share of metropolitan budget overheads.

Caarnnn, Anth. Can I sign you up as a supporter?

Hmmm, interesting point raised above in Queensland bashing. I have lived in 12 NSW rural communities and about 3 remote Far North Queensland communities. Guess what. The Queensland communities brought me in as family, welcomed my contributions for the skills that I had to offer, and I respected their unique ways. I wasn't a local, never pretended to be. Once we understood I was true blue and dinky di, and they were really not that different to me all was cool. I never had any aires or graces, I just did my job, drank at the pub, shared lots of jokes, we got along just fine.

A few NSW isolated rural communities I really miss, my family live there. I live in Sydney not by choice, but by necessity. I am happy here, but I would be happier with my family in the country. There are a few isolated communities closer to Sydney, however, that were a living hell. They were constantly suspicious, rude, unfriendly, I couldn't wait to leave. The weather was even lousy.

So it is all relative. I don't know if I am country or city. I respect the difference. One thing I learnt from FNQ was that they had less problems with professional Sydney people offering their services, living there for some time, than Brisbane people. I guess there was the feeling that Brisbane neglects FNQ, that they are arrogant to them and simply don't care. I could see that in the patronising attitude people from Brisbane that lived there, treated the locals with. The rivalry I think is more internally within Queensland. When the State of Origin came on the Television, I just shut my mouth. That is good manners "whilst in Rome". Thats just sport, and we all like to have a laugh about that old chestnut.

Can't quite sign me up, Perseus. Two reasons:

First, hey maybe I'm th only one who can't see it, but I am not convinced that rural Australia is drained of funds in proportion to metropolitan overheads (I may not have the quote just right there - you can't see previous posts while posting on these discussion boards). I would have thought the flow of capital was the other way round, once you take into account things like roads (many more kilometres per person out there to be paid for), diesel fuel rebates, single desk policies propping up prices, dodgy family trusts to get out of paying tax and maximise welfare income, the costs of providing public schools to country areas, the costs of providing telecommunications to country areas, cost of rural railroads (remember the outcry when Goss tried to shut down the ones which were costing a packet) etc etc etc.

If any rural industry is propping up Australia it's the mining industry.

The other reason you can't sign me up is the beastie called the Commonwealth Grants Commission. How long would it be before NQ and Condamine were at the Grants Commission bleating in a Tasmania-like way about the need for more than their fair share because they're the "true" Australia except that they're poor because all the other states are bludging off them?

While we're at it, would these new states excpect to have Senators? How many? If you're trying to sell the idea of the current area of Queensland going from 12 Senators to 36, good luck! And you can't take any away from Queensland, because it is an original state so its Senators are guaranteed. Then of course you need to find double the number of House of Reps members (see Constitution s.24). And on any fair population distribution, guess where those extra seats would go? Sydney, Melbourne and SEQ!

Interesting thread though :)

Anth

Good points, Anth. About 15 % of GDP goes to state budgets and at least 20% of each department's budget goes to head office overheads and centralised operating costs that only circulate within the metropolitan economy.

This amounts to an annual leakage of 3% of the regional economy (ie 20% of 15% = 3%). That means the regional economy must grow by 3% a year to maintain their status quo.

To calculate the long term impact of this leakage just take out your calculator, key in 0.97 and multiply by 1 and then hit the equal button 20 times and you will be left with 0.54 which is the size of the local economy in 20 years time if there are no compensating payments. This is exacerbated by leakage of statutory super contributions that used to be wages spent in local economies but are now centralised, with half invested overseas.

That is why regional economies with no compensating "sea change" or mining investment are in decline. It is structural and far outweighs any efficiency gains from centralised government. In Qld the SE corner is 2/3rds of the population so the metropolitan economy will grow by 1.5% a year without even getting out of bed.

The grants commission makes payments based on variations in the cost of delivering services. In Qld the major element in that cost variance is the cost of flying bureaucrats all over a large state to discover what a local decision maker would already know. At the moment, Beattie gets additional funds from the feds but there is serious doubt that the funds actually get to the regions.

New state capitals will be much closer to their constituents and the cost variance will be lower. And unlike Tasmania, no new states will need compensation for the cost of Bass Straight, the major cause of their cost variance.

The number of Senators has already been solved wrt ACT and NT. First allocate HOReps seats based on population quotas and then give them half as many Senators or a minimum of two.

Rural roads are funded by council rates.

Good point Saintfletcher, there are a lot of country people who have moved to the city, are happy there but would rather be back in the bush. Every public servant and most career people in the bush have had to come to terms with the fact that, at the moment, the only way to progress above a certain level is to move to the city where the decision makers are. If you don't then your career has hit a political glass ceiling that is a much greater barrier than that faced by women or any minority protected by equal opportunity policy.

A regional state government will shift head office type job opportunities to that region and ensure that the people developing policy and making decisions about the region actually know that region and understand the full historical context of the issues they need to resolve. At the moment, most people in key roles spend most of their time getting up to speed on the issues and are then moved to a new role where none of their recently gained understanding is of any relevance.

Regional states will not only slow the drift to the city by young professionals but also reduce the population pressures and congestion costs in the existing capitals. It is "win, win" for both sides.