The Forum > Article Comments > Morality for a broken world > Comments
Morality for a broken world : Comments
By Bill Uren, published 29/5/2006Condoms discussion in the Catholic Church returns to traditional moral norms.
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Posted by Schmuck, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 8:15:32 AM
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Schmuck,
If you go to the Redefining Progress site you will find the environmental footprints of nations (i.e. the average consumption per person). Then try plotting these footprints against rank on the UN Human Development Index. You will find that there is a very strong correlation between consumption and human well-being up to a European standard of living. The correlation breaks down past that point, and it is then reasonable to talk about overconsumption. However, this only amounts to about 350 million people out of 6.5 billion. If all the Americans, Canadians, and Australians disappeared overnight and their freed up capacity made available to the rest of the world, population growth would restore the general level of misery in less than a decade for the places with the fastest population growth. It would take 2-3 Earths to give everyone a decent European standard of living, even if the resources were all divided equally and managed in the best possible way. Don't take my word for it, do the calculation for yourselves. I also object to the idea that we (especially the ordinary people) are somehow responsible for the misery. First World governments and corporations are not run by angels and have certainly done bad things around the world, but it was First World governments and charitable foundations that were also responsible for the Green Revolution that has doubled food production since the 1960s. Apart from some countries in East Asia, it was the Third World people themselves who decided to put the gains into population growth rather than into development or higher living standards. I can't recall the reference - but I believe there has been research to show that reducing child mortality does reduce the number of pregnancies, but that completed family size can sometimes become even larger. Posted by Divergence, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 9:46:13 AM
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First world governments and third world governments cannot overule the Catholic churches decrees that rule the mainly illiterate hordes of Roman Catholics who must obey their celibate priest to never practise birth control especially to wear condoms.
They (the RCC) banned them to their followers in Africa a few years ago so we now have an epidemic of AIDS as they didn't know that promiscuity spread this deadly disease with 45 million now postitive with AIDS. The RCC should pay compensation to all who obeyed their outdated Catholic law ,demanded by so called celibate single men,of the cloth. The Catholic church is more powerful than any government as they use fear and control,to increase Catholics worldwide with this. Posted by dobbadan, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 2:00:37 PM
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It is amazing that an article like this can once more set off a round of ill informed invective.
The Catholic Church's attitude to contraceptive devices is seen as archaic which in turn leads to it being portrayed as an impediment to everything from an effective response to aids, unwanted pregnancies and allegedly out of control population growth. Sooner or later someone will undoubtedly connect its position to global warming. Never let facts spoil a good story! Even the most cursory inspection of major studies (including the UN WHO statistics) on subjects such as aids worldwide, especially in developing countries, and other rigorous research on teenage pregnancy rates in developed countries shows an overwhelming fact. There is no correlation between where the Catholic Church has promoted its views and high levels of aids or unwanted pregnancies. Rather, the overwhelming evidence reveals a direct relationship between poverty and lack of general education which restricts people's life choices. Indeed, on the population issue it is clear that the birthrate declines as national prosperity increases (ironically leading to less than a replacement rate in some European countries). While commentators are quick to blame the Catholic Church over its supposedly shameful attitude to contraceptive devices, they are strangely silent on its relentless efforts to improve the socio-economic standards of the poor and to improve education in deprived areas. These efforts directly address the root cause of many problems in contrast to the cosmetic approach of those who focus on contraception. Let's get beyond this issue and focus on the real things that help human dignity. Posted by TonyD, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 5:12:40 PM
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We all know that the Catholic Church, like various other religious and non-religious organisations, does some excellent charitable work. Although I am not Catholic, I give some modest financial support to one of these charities , because it's wonderful what they do to help disabled children.
But this does not give the Catholic Church the right to promote nonsense. The Pope is no more infallible than I am. The then Pope was wrong about basic astronomy in Galileo's time and what's changed? The so-called rhythm method is unreliable for many people. To try and ban condoms and other forms of effective birth control is nonsense. Some of the European countries with low birthrates are predominantly Catholic. Does anyone seriously believe that millions of healthy people in loving relationships are going without sex, just to please their priests? I don't have a problem with having a spiritual belief. But to allow one's life to be ruled by assorted priests etc who have no more idea of what "God's Plan" is than you or I or anyone else has is ridiculous. This realisation is becoming more widespread amongst educated, thinking people. Just like any other business which has had a powerful hold on millions of people for a long, long time, the Catholic Church will continue to fight hard to keep its share of the market. But perhaps, just perhaps, the Catholic Church will increasingly see the need to modify some of its "unchangeable" rules. Posted by Rex, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 6:04:31 PM
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"Religious ideology also contributed to the country's deepening demographic
problems. The majority of Rwanda's population were Catholic. Despite Rwanda's evident overpopulation, those in the church and government hierarchy not only refused to promote birth control programs, they actively opposed them. Radical Catholic pro-life commandos raided pharmacies to destroy condoms with the approval of the Ministry of the Interior" http://www.du.edu/gsis/hrhw/volumes/2002/2-1/magnarella2-1.pdf Above is what Catholic policy has done in the third world Tony. IMHO its a total disgrace! People will never get out of poverty, if they are forced against their will, to have far more kids then they want or can feed. Every woman in the third world should have family planning access, just like in the first world. The Catholic Church should finally stop all those efforts to deny third world women that assistance. What they are promoting is totally unstainable. We saw what happened in highly Catholic Rwanda, when simply too many people on too little space, saw Catholics killing Catholics in one huge genocide. So much for God's plan. Nature will solve it for you, the hard way sadly. Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 7:03:31 PM
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If we want world-population to decrease we need to correct imbalances in the distribution of priviledge worldwide. If western states stopped certain unfair practices that would already be a good start!