I didn't see this fight and I am not really a boxing fan. To me, the interest is in the figure of 'Choc' Mundine. Was there ever an Australian sporting champion who generates so much hostility and resentment from the Australian public? The attitude towards Choc was captured in an article by Rebecca Wilson in the Sun-Herald last Sunday. Wilson reckoned that the crowd at the fight was 10:1 in favour of Green, hoping he would give Choc a hiding. A few years ago, when Choc lost a title (?) fight to a German boxer (Ottke?) the Australian public's reaction could be summed up as 'good, he had it coming'.

Wilson's article recounted Choc's public statements about his aboriginality and Muslim faith. I think Choc's parading of this is what many Aussie sport fans hate. They are not known for high levels of religious or racial tolerance. A near equivalent is Muhammed Ali, who also paraded his black skin colour and Muslim faith, as well as the "I am the greatest' line. Many hated Ali at the time and applauded when he was stripped of his titles and jailed for refusing army induction at the time of the Vietnam war, a stance that now seems heroic. Ali is now revered as one of the greatest ever sporting figures and a man who stuck to his principles.

Choc clearly models his public persona on Ali. Neither his boxing skills or public speaking/clowning skills are anywhere near Ali's. (Neither are anyone else's). I have to admit that some of Choc's utterances are downright silly. Nevertheless, he is a skilled boxer, probably deserves to win a world title. He definitely deserves the respect and support of the Australian public, big mouth or not. The 'more humility, please' line run by Rebecca Wilson and others is rubbish. Choc is a champ in the toughest of sports and needs to do and say whatever it takes for motivation and self-belief.

Good luck, Choc. I hope you go onto bigger and better things, and make your people and the Aussie public proud.

Boxing is cruel, mean, miserable, brutal, uncivilised behaviour - NOT a sport at all- usually practised by grunting 'knuckles- dragging-on-the-ground' neanderthals and/or ex thugby players. numbat

At last an article about sport on OLO. I swoon, am near to fainting, am ..... plonk. Wha! where am I? Oh yeah.

Rancitas, as the world's worst (that is crapededest) street fighter, would like to thank Dave for a great read (my jaw isn't even made of glass but that brittle plasticy stuff that they package sprouts in and,yes, Rancitas is famous for being the yob who once, whilst a bit tiddly thought a petrol bowzer bumped into him on purpose and was having a go at him, so Rancitas took the bowzer on -- the bowzer somehow won. "Go Well Go Shell. I'll give you go (expletive) go shu-e-ll I'll have ya', ya' pushie baarsturd."

Trouble now is every one wants to fight you when are the world's crapededest street fighter.

Life is like boxing - some one is always trying to knock you down. Still standing (although I do have an aversion to petrol bowzers and have been known to cross the street to avoid them).

Thanks Dave Smith - great read. (HASSY)

THE WARRIOR’S CODE
(Written by Dropkick Murphys)

You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins
No!

You were born to box in a city that's seen their share
Mello, Ryan, Carney, among them your photo proudly hangs there
Above the bar in the Gaelic Club
They tell the story of a throwback
With the heart of a lion
They salute your glory

It's another murderous night
Another left hook from hell
A bloody war on the boardwalk
And the kid from Lowell rises to the bell

CHORUS:
Micky
It's a warrior's code
Micky
He's got the warrior's soul

CHORUS

This song is about Massachusetts' own Micky Ward, a boxing legend who defines the heart and soul of the sport.

ENDS

There is nothing beautiful about boxing nor the people who support it as a sport. The sooner it is banned the better.

I am too beautiful. And numbat my nuckles dragging on the ground is great for waking me up when I am sleep walking.

six years of beat-ups and put-downs from those looking to see the smart-mothed flashy blackfella go down.

to all the green fans, no what huh?

SILENCE, ha ha nice to hear.

To Rossco & Numbat - don't hold your breath for boxing to be banned anytime soon. Sure it is dangerous. So is motor sport, downhill skiing, rugby, horse racing, rock fishing. Sure it is brutal. Ditto some of the above. So what exactly is your objection? If you don't like it, do as I do and don't watch. And spare us you moral sensitivities and abuse.

Hey PK: I gave my opinion on the brutal "art?" of boxing. I do not watch, I could not watch it as I see it no better than a roadside brawl between two brainless thugs. Nor do I watch stupid inane thugby where it seems one main goal is to paralyse opposition players by spearing them into/onto the ground and breaking their necks - very civilized indeed. As I said it seems that thugby is "played?" by retarded, brutal, neanderthals and/or rock apes. numbat

Numbat, I don't call that an opinion, it's just a stream of invective. I suppose everyone has the right to vent, but stuff like that is pretty hard to engage with.

Numbat. Dave Smith takes kids from the side of the road and puts them in a structured environmnet and teaches them boxing skills. Often these kids gain the self esteem so that they don't become thugs bashing out on the side of the road. They no doubt wear protective head gear whilst training and so on. Bit like them meth. clinics.

You stick to ya' bowls old fella. And, if you throw your back out trying to nudge the white, and end up in a public hospital and fall out of bed whilst trying to get the Hep C covered Bible out the draw and crack your head on the floor and become brain damaged and then a few weeks later start turning yellow (jaundiced)I still wouldn't tell you that you were a "retard[ed]" so and so because you're entitled to play the sport of your choice - within reason.

Don't worry old mate not many sleeps 'til Tour de France. I suppose you want that banned too.

rancitus: I do not give a monkey's toenail if kids wear full body armour teaching them to belt the stuffing out of another kid is, in my eyes, bad. To me it is exulting brutality and even with head gear young bodies can receive substantial damage in a fight - believe me!
I deserve a peaceful life now and thank you for your concern for me -it really touched me!
Remember it's the little blue pills and do not take more than the recommended dosage or you may write another rubbishy puerile letter.
Boxing is for mentally retarded neanderthals and those who watch this brutality are worse, not unlike the Roman gladiatorial games. numbat

Numbat your bitter repost meant no doubt to wound.
"Remember it's the little blue pills and do not take more than the recommended dosage or you may write another rubbishy puerile letter."

Visit. http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2006/s1645137.htm

I am not mentally ill, and so what if I was, I think your slag at mental illness was in poor taste and disrespectful to those who are. Yeah I know you dont give monkey's toenail. I can see that.
Here is an some of the transcript.

ANNE GARTON, SPEAKING IN CAIRNS AT CONCLUSION OF ‘GO THE JOURNEY TOGETHER – BRISBANE TO CAIRNS BIKE RIDE, 2005’: What I really want to say on behalf of all the riders is that I'm standing here and I have a mental illness, and I can stand here and I can say this without fear and without shame and without humiliation...

BRENDAN TERRY, COACH: It's been exciting to watch Annie, in recent times, travel and do a little bit of media work, letting people know about mental illnesses and helping people understand and be aware of mental illnesses.

Don't quit. Get out of bed, even when you can't. Push past the pain and the torture even when you can't and have hope even when you don't.

BEV GARTON, MOTHER: Well, when Anne started her public speaking I thought that was a really big step forward for her, because it's only by being open and talking about it and by people seeing Anne and seeing she hasn't got two heads or she doesn't do strange things willy-nilly, that people will have a lot more understanding on it.

ANNE GARTON: I want people with mental illness to know that recovery does happen. By recovery I mean that you find meaning in life and you learn...you learn that your illness is not everything in your life.

ANNE GARTON, SPEAKING AT RICHMOND FELLOWSHIP QLD MENTAL HEALTH FORUM 2005: So, don't judge us based on the stigma of mental illness. Just stand beside us, be our friend, 'cause we really need you, and mental illness is real

Continued:

BRENDAN TERRY, COACH: As a coach there are more negatives than positives, but the positives, when they come around - and Annie has been a positive - are just huge, and they engrave themselves into you and you remember them forever. And they're the things that keep you going.

BEV GARTON, MOTHER: I really, really admire her. I've never known anyone with such courage as my daughter. She could so easily just curl up and say, "I have this illness, I can't do anything." But look - she's out there doing every little bit that she can.

END
My daughter is mentally ill and I know a fair few people who have mental illness. My daughter has more sense and determination than you are showing - have a rethink and grow up.

Heh rancitus [or is that rats arse]: I never rubbished anyone with a mental disorder and you should be ashamed of your big fat libelous, stinking, foul lie that I did.We had Heather, a downs syndrome girl, a wonderful caring, loving girl. How dare you you say what you did - you do have serious problem. Disgusted, numbat

Ranc...and Numbat...

guys.. it seems a lot or most of us are bleeding in one way or another.
Sometimes in the passion of debate, we do say things (like me) that we later regret..

Suffice to say that my heart goes out to both of you on the issue of your daughters. Its moments like that, when all the points scoring seems so futile and meaningless, and underlines the importance of all of us supporting each other in our own lives and directions.

I've taken a considerable interest in Martial Arts of late, (previously did some boxing) and I've been quite amazed at how much I actually can do at this age of 57. I do question how that fits with my relationship with Christ, and a life meant to reflect His word.

I have 3 children and while none of them have turned out to fit 'my' dream for offspring, but they each have something special to give, and I want them to always condsider how to build others up rather than tear them down.

Dave's teaching boxing may not be our cuppatea, but on balance, I'm sure it does good.

Perhaps we need a bit more give and take ? cheers

Numbat: you said:

“Remember it's the little blue pills and do not take more than the recommended dosage or you may write another rubbishy puerile letter.
Boxing is for mentally retarded Neanderthals (sic) … “

You clearly suggested that Rancitas was mentally ill (not that it should matter). I think it was said with malicious intent. If this is not so, then explain what you did mean and what your intent was. When people attempt to insult others that they disagree with in this way they indirectly insult people like Anne Garton and undermine their efforts to fight the stigma associated with mental illness.

You also wrongly associated mental capacity with the choices people make, especially when you disagree.

Boxers are people who can make up their own minds. They usually know the pros and cons of the sport . There are PYC all over this country that have martial arts classes. Those police aren’t stupid. And neither are mentally ill people.

Read your last post. It’s an oxymoron that confirms you’re not thinking clearly:

“Heh rancitus [or is that rats arse]: I never rubbished anyone with a mental disorder and you should be ashamed of your big fat libelous, stinking, foul lie that I did. We had Heather, a downs syndrome girl, a wonderful caring, loving girl. How dare you say what you did - you do have serious problem. Disgusted, numbat “

The first thing a mentally ill person learns when they go to Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is to stick to the problem /issue. You are the one who has resorted to insulting other’s mental capacity and childlike name calling. It is a bit like hitting below the belt.

I am proud of my post and you did rubbish the mentally ill with your blue -pills jibe.

rancitus:Whatever I meant to say you perceived that I insulted and demeaned you for that I apologise. Furthermore I had no right to call you what I did again please accept my deepest apologies.
The above has not changed my views on boxing and I think lesser men fight and even lesser enjoy seeing a bloke being bloodied, beaten and humiliated.
Yes I did box when I was a boy, it was at the local Police boys club. Yes I did win and even then for me to "win?" I had to beat and humiliate another boy. So since then I have eschewed boxing yet again I was an army Sergeant and learned un-armed combat and bayonet fighting. That seemed different as I was training to kill my countries enemies. Yet I now see it was perhaps not at all different, yet if I were young enough I would be a part of our nation's armed forces. Maybe I am a poor twisted wrinkly, but I am what I am for better or for worse. numbat

continued
I don’t doubt for one second that Heather was a wonderful, caring and loving girl. You were clearly trying to imply that I had said something to the contrary.. I didn’t - and I haven’t said anything that could be remotely connected to her condition. I did not even know you had a daughter. There was no mention of her anywhere in my posts.

I posted the Anne story to enlighten posters about mental illness. You threw up the mental illness thing to discredit my views rather than stick to the issue. I used your seemingly callous disregard for the mentally ill to show people how the stigmatising of mentally ill happens in society.

You say Rancitas has a “serious problem” because of his concerns. You have given no valid reasons and no logical response to prove that - so it remains a petty and miserable personal attack.

That I am a “rat arse” or “stink[ing]” as you say may be true but those insults have nothing to do with the issue. How does that and the little bill pills jibe relate to the issue?

There was nothing libellous in my post at all and I stand firm. To be frank I don’t even know what you are upset about. Is it that I claimed a mentally ill person had more sense than you? Check out these famous mentally ill folk.

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=Helpline1&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=4858

Humbling.

I was just about to post this when read Numbat's post. So Numbat don't take it as a rejection of your post. I value your last insightful and experienced-based post. I bet every wrinkle has a story to tell.

I would like you to think about what upset you. I think it was that with your knowledge and experiences you felt no one was respecting your opinion. You have a daughter who had Downs Syndrome and even the slightest hint that you disrespect afflicted people hurt. If that's it - any upset was not intended and I too apologise. If I am wrong, we can try to resolve it or agree to disagree. WEFIGHTBLACKDOG

Boaz no regrets. My concern is with Numbats contributing to the stigmatising of people because an individual has a different opinion on Dave Smith’s article about good sportsmanship in boxing –not “pointscoring”. I do regret Numbat’s anguish.

Boaz: Anne is not related to Ranc. But who wouldn’t be honoured to have her as a daughter?

My daughter is mentally ill. She has fought the” black dog” and has it under control. I have a few mentally ill friends. You’ve heard me say: “Fight, fight , fight you’ll never win”. Two things that me and mine will always fight. The black dog (mental illness) or pressure to turn from our humanity. Some assume that I am talking about physical fighting.

NO. I used a quote from Orwell’s 1984 to explain my intention.

“…If you can feel that staying human is worthwhile, even when it can’t have any result whatever, you’ve beaten them.”

So literally I am saying fight, fight you never win because I’ll always “stay human”. The “stay human” is having the capacity to feel as humans do and the strength to not join any group that inflicts injustice on others. “

Boaz you say: “none of them (your three Children) have turned out to fit my dreams”. I find that patronising or at least unwise. It suggests that Numbat and I have some disappointment in our children.

NO. My daughter has fought the good fight and her story is similar to Anne”s. I have always wanted my three children to achieve THEIR dreams. I do dream of a more pleasant journey and outcomes for her and other people with mental illness. There comes a point Boaz when the fulfilment of their dreams is secondary to our own aspirations.
You know?

Thanks for your post, it was otherwise helpful.