Philo,

No problem regarding you commitments. I am in the same boat. John-tassie silence suggests a similar position.

After moving from esoteric writings to just looking the matter up in an encyclopaedia, I discovered a Q is a hypothetical retrograde construction based on later writings and contemporary history.

Just the same the Hellenistic influence idea does seem valid. To what extent, I guess it is hard to tell. Jesus always having the last word is also a Greek technique. As is shifting away from a direct question, towards an answer to an “associated” for which there is a pre-prepared answer. (Politicians on TV please note. ;-).

In 3006:

Someone in 3006 reading the Letters of Philo and Olive could probably make speculative guesses about us. But not be certain.

The Hypothesised Me. Someone might suggest I have had a liberal arts education, but also pragmatic. My common use of metaphors might suggest that I try centre readers’ on something more familiar them. This 21st writer is a liberal progressive developer.

The Hypothesised You. Based on your “early” submissions, possibly a Jewish to Christian convert. You have an excellent knowledge of OT. Too free-thinking to be a priest or minister. OT-NT is link is very important. Deep study into the OT and the NT is recommended. But for the 50 AD – 300 AD period, one needs to tread carefully.

Maybe someone, who left Bible College, after a theology degree and joined the regular workforce. “Philo?” Philo of Alexandria? That again suggests a respect for a Jewish tradition. (I think the more Christian, Christian Jews were settled more around Pella?)

Science can’t be ignored, but can be protagonist to value systems.

This 21st centurt writer is a "guidedly" open-minded scholar.

Above speculation. Hits&Misses? Apply to past discourse.

Can what a few weeks for a reply to all. Busy too.

The apostles Paul and Peter were martyred during the reign of Nero 54 – 68 AD; the Apostle Paul beheaded after his trial in Rome, Peter crucified upside down. Therefore their writings were written before 68 AD.

Peter wrote a record of Jesus life during the three years he was with Jesus and this account is alluded to by Serapion of Antioch in 190 AD, and by Origen a historian in 253 AD, Eusebius of Caesarea in 300 AD [others later than that mention it also]. I have a copy of three pages found in the upper Nile in 1886 and translated into English recorded in “Lost books of the Bible”. The three pages cover a detailed account of the removal of Jesus body from the cross and being placed in Joseph of Arimathea’s tomb. From this account Herod and not Pilate gives the orders that Jesus be crucified. It appears Joseph was a friend of Pilate and when the Jews requested that the dead be buried before the preparation of the Sabbath, Joseph makes his tomb available. If we could find a full copy of the Gospel of Peter it would be a valuable resource.

It’s from the original record of Peter that Mark and Matthew were written. The three synoptic gospels have been influenced much by Peter’s writings. Luke more than the others seems to be an attempt at an ordered history, combined with Acts of the early believers. A prefix has been added to a copy of Luke sent to Theophilius the Leader of a Christian gathering in Alexandra in the second century. It is this copy we have in our NT. Luke influenced from the writings of Mary and James writes his account of Jesus infancy.

The writings of Mary mother of Jesus and James son of Joseph were written in Hebrew during their lifetime; and translated into Latin in 1552. I have copies of both these in English.

John’s account was written while imprisoned in Patmos, also his revelation. John was a personal friend of Jesus so his writings share the intimacy of Jesus words

Hey Patty

I like being called a Cheeky Monkey

Philo,

Interesting information with some dates a generation earlier than I thought. Thanks for the effort too.

I have read that the Hasmonean dynasty should have offered a ruler not the Herodians. Rome was said have placed Herod on his throne. (Like China and Tibet, and, China and its new RC cardinal.) If true, it might explain an actual/apparent friendship between Pilate and Herod?

Would Herod have the power to deliver a capital judgement? I would have thought not. (My wife's Roman source books are in storage.)

Could it be that Herod brought Jesus to Pilate on charges of sedition (King of ...). Pilate understood that Jesus didn't mean Rome and let him go? Very spectulative, I know. More spectulative, Herod took matters into his own hands and Pilate "overlooked" it? But, doesn't explain the presence of Roman soldiers.

I will study yout post with interest and return to the Forum in a few days.

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Oliver, consider this: the gospels are very Jewish in character and to place them as written by the Roman Church several hundred years later makes is totally improbable that they would reflect the character of Judaism during the first century period.

Where were the Jews after AD 72 certainly not writing books about a sect following a rejected Messiah. So if they were writen by Jews in the third century they had at least had some continuous verbal feeder of faith to their stories.

However it should be noted that after the first century the Christian Church was primarily gentile in character. Read the Ante nicene Fathers and you will realise they were redrawing the verbal pictures in gentile contexts. The Christian Church in Rome by the third century had very little knowledge of the events contemporary with the Christian sect in Jerusalem during that first century.

We can only conclude that the source writings were contemporary with the events of the first century.