For my tupence worth - the first schism in the Christian Church was between the Jamesian and Pauline Christians. Paul one James nil.

James = the "Lord's brother"

“This analysis is a triumph of secular academics who steadfastly ignore many good results of European Christian mission and labelled such efforts as cultural imperialism.”

Name one good result of European Christian mission, that hasn't resulted in indigenous cultural collapse

“Where to from here? It seems that our society will have to learn even harder lessons before it will learn that it has been duped by what has been called “secular rationalism”. This movement will have to produce even more absurdity before we will see it for what it is.”

Name what absurdities secular rationalism has produced, except for tolerating monotheism for so long

DFXK , Sneekeepete, being monotheistic, there are many similarities between the different groups.

Very true DFKK, war, torture, suppression, psychological assaults, indigenous cultural slaughter, lying, deception, plagiarism on a huge scale, material power and control. The only thing monotheists lack, is truth.

Sell's, is grasping at straws and trying to change reality. One of the biggest affronts to our intelligence, is monotheists, constantly trying to change history to suit themselves, when all evidence shows to what depth they will go to gain control

Sells, your flipping out because reality is catching up with your delusions, naturally you don't like it. Trying to say that secularism and our modern society derive from the belief in god is another attempt to change and hijack history. What monotheists fail to realise and accept as they cling desperately to the past, is the human race has evolved and has an intelligence far more advanced than those trapped in monotheist fear. We subjectively look at all aspects of life, making determinations according to the reality that exists. Unlike the believers in god, who can but cringe in fear of the future as the final curtain falls on god

[What a strange piece].... is all I had to read before even seeing the name to know it was 'Pericles' :)

You are becoming identifiable mate.. predictable.. but.. I think I'm feeling a bit of a plank in the old eyesocket on this one......

For me, I just rejoice with unutterable joy, that we are grappling with such worthy subjects. Good on you guys...

How lamentable is the almost all pervasive 'apathy' to Biblical spirituality which characterized my generation. (son of the 60s)

Can't say too much this time, except that I embrace all of you, even the 'foes' :) in the noble persuit of truth.

Will finish with bank statements and reconciliations by end of 2night, then might have more to say. (er..thats for 05 of course.. *sigh*)

blessings to all.

Dxfx
Quote "Christendom preserved and took to heart the culture of the ancient world". Yes Christendom preserved classical texts for it's own purpose but it NEVER took classical philosophy to heart!

The 4th Council of Carthage (398 CE) forbade bishops to even read books on philosophy. Jerome, a church father & early monastic (4th century CE) rejoiced that classical authors were being forgotten. His younger monastic contemporaries often boasted that they were ignorant of everything except christian literature. John Crysostom proudly declared "Every trace of of the old philosophy & literature is disappearing from the Earth".

Does any of that sound remotely like Christianity was taking classical learning to heart?

But those classical works were only preserved by christian monks copying them. Right? Yes except they ONLY did this because manual labour was considered necessary to "fight the devil" NOT because they thought the works had any intrinsic worth, according to Cassiodorus.

In fact the low esteem classical works were held can be seen from these instruction from Cluni [at one time the most influential monastery in Europe.
"If a monk wishes a [christian] book during the hours of silence he is to make a sign of turning the leaves; if he wishes a classical book, he is to scratch his ear like a dog."

This is showing respect to classical philosophy & taking its work to heart? Funny ways of showing respect.

The first point of understanding is to understand that you do not understand.

Sells, you seek debate, but so often fail to hear what is said to you. I agree that “cultural relativism”, which perhaps originally sought to help understanding between cultures, has thrown the objective baby out with the bath water, leading for some to “denial that a real world exists and that we exist under the auspices of its necessity.” But while claiming that reality is immutable, a given, you continue to subject it to your own interpretation. For example, you say that “It is obvious that a culture that places so much emphasis on life after death will tend not to take this world seriously. Likewise, in Buddhism, detachment will produce a similar result.”

You’ve raised this before, but have ignored responses to it. You can’t experience reality in the past – you can only have memories of it. You can’t experience reality in the future – you can only have thoughts of it. You can experience reality only in the present, and the whole teaching of the Buddha was how to experience reality, as it is, without distortion, by choiceless observation of the reality of the present moment in one’s own mind and body. Everything we observe is within this framework, our interaction with the world is through our sense doors, eyes, ears, touch etc. So the Buddha taught the necessity of living in the present moment, of observing with detachment, like a true scientist, so that you can observe reality and in so doing, develop wisdom and purify yourself.

Your frequent denial of this in your references to Buddhism suggests that you have a mental block to understanding and accepting something outside of the framework in which you feel comfortable. Don’t demand of people that they accept “reality” when you are not prepared to examine it yourself, not prepared to develop your own wisdom but instead relying on “received truth”, which is no truth at all