In the past I have despaired as the discussions of Peter’s articles deteriorated into repetitious flogging of old hobby horses rather than thoughtful consideration of the original text. However I believe this thread is actually beginning to bear fruit!

The last few posts prompt me to offer the following thoughts.

God does not exist, but God does insist. We tend to found the concept of existence primarily (though not solely) on visual perception. This applies perhaps more especially to the scientific-rationalist approach. The notion of insistence deserves far more attention as a type of reality different from the reality of existence. When I say God insists, I base my conclusion less on sight than on hearing. God speaks within my mind, within relationships, within events. To say God exists presents God as an objective, discrete entity as if the conclusion is based on in vitro observation and measurement with all variables controlled. This is the approach of the contemporary scientific-rationalist which is useless for theology. We need to start listening more widely and deeply– to history, to narrative, to music, to our conversations, to our own thoughts and dreams. The insistent Word then begins to reveal itself. Our civilisation is too heavily based on vision.

Sells,
Great couple of well defined posts.

The concept 'word' in the Apostle John's writings is so important in understanding the revelation of God, or should I say the incarnation of God. The character the life and the sincerity of the pure heart and mind of Christ expressed in his spirit we observe and conclude - Here is God!

He was not God because he was conceived a human God, but what was always and eternally God he declared by his living. The word is not verbal communication or ink on a parchment. It is the message typed out by life, and action of a pure mind. As a mother's intimate devotion to the care and needs of an infant, she does not need to use words, it is the communication of devotion and care that the infant is reading. It is living the truth of purity and devotion.

God exposes our heart to true purity and holiness and we can do nothing but confess the imperfection of the desires of our heart and the manipulative thoughts of our mind. Our innermost thoughts and motives are exposed to God, and by us not being willing to confess before God will affect the effectiveness of our relationships to God and others, as much as we might want to hide who we truly are.

One who is living in God and God living in them will not be one defined merely by a religious tag, but one known as pure in thought and character. This does not mean one who is not aware of the world and nature of sin, or immature and infantile in behaviour. It means one who recognises forgiveness in their own life and has the strength to forgive those that have injured them.

Many in society calls themself Christian, but their attitudes and behaviour does not reflect their relationship to God. It rather reflects they are following a peer value system, "as long as everyone is having a good time its OK". People ultimately get hurt and destroyed by doing whatever feels good at the time.

Sells & Philo,

Though our language in the last few posts differs I think we are more or less in agreement about the Word and relationship with God. Thanks for the opportunity to think through the matter in dialogue.

Philo, I commend your efforts in helping others overseas. However just like the religion, social and economic rationalism. Your beliefs caused the problems, so you blame others, then give lip service help to boost your ego.

"Thou shalt not make [imagine, create] any graven [formulate] images". The bible is a formulated image of god, as are churches, prayer books, ordained people. Every sermon, thought, word or action, is a formulated image and graven ones at that. Interpretations are formulated images. None of them are truly representative of your god unless you are god. As your not, you can only formulate, or create an image of the event. Totally against gods will.

So god is not a being, but is love. Yet the influencing events of those expressing gods purity, are violent and destructive, not love, but another false image.

“The real question about God is about the truth of God. If the concept of God does not lead to a more accurate interaction with the world then he is untrue.”

Sells, The truth of god, is in the application and results of gods work through its followers. Accordingly, the interaction of god with the world through its followers, is verification of its truth. Anything else is a concept and formulated image. The applied results can be seen in the state of the world and its interaction with gods followers, this truth is for all to see. Whilst the implied, formulated image of the followers, doesn't equate to the truth, its directly the opposite in truth

“He was not God because he was conceived a human God,”.

Differentiate a human god from god. If jesus was conceived by love, making him a product of the event, (god), then everyone else thats been conceived in love is a god. Irrelevant as to whether its within the moral constraints of an formulated christian image, marriage.

As Jesus, nor god wrote anything and the bible is mostly 2nd-3rd hand knowledge, then they are formulated images, not gods truth and never can be except, within a flimsy mind.

Sells & others: God is not a being but an event; God is manifest in love, forgiveness, reconciliation and pure character. These characteristics are all human and, I believe, emotionally-based human traits. It goes to confirm Feuerbach’s understanding that God is an event in the mind created by humans in their own image.

What of the millions who praise God every Sunday and thank Him for their very existence and ask Him for health and peace. Do you think that they think they are appealing to an event and not a being? Do you think that the suicide bombers would launch themselves so happily into an event if they had not been assured that some sort of paradise with a God, rather than an event, awaited them. These, also, might be regarded as silly and childish questions to advanced theological theorists but vast numbers of people are making decisions every day that those decisions are being guided by something more than an event.

The serious scientific question is: How did that image of God arise in humans?
I have attempted to outline my own understanding of that process from the thoughts of others who have approached it from a materialist viewpoint. I have set out that understanding in:

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3252

If anyone cares to examine it.

John Warren,
I believe the human mind registers and recognises the happenings [the events] in the living out of our being, and how we respond / react to events in our lives. God is not a book: He is interpreted in the life lived.

The human mind is not a static computer just recording the keystrokes, it is evaluating the purpose and reasons for the keystrokes and their relationships to other keystrokes where no programme has been developed. We make observations and judgments upon things for which we have had no previous experience. We believe as frail humans if we delve into the mind of God for wisdom it will help us determine the way.

Israel always retraces the crossing of the red sea because it was a miracle in time based positioning. They were at the shore when the tsunami waters withdrew and then after they crossed pounded down on the pursuing Egyptian army. Similarly the collapse of the Jerico wall. It collapsed during the marching of Israel because of a land fault.

How we respond to events in our lives will demonstrate the nature of the our character. Just this morning we at Church received word that two of our beautiful Indian Australian women [mother and daughter] have agressive limph cancer. We pray for their healing, for their strength and grace to remain positive in the face of the unknown outcome. Do they panic, because the daughter has two infant children, they are distressed but we uphold them by emotional and prayerful support.

Why? Because we recognise that Jesus wept at the loss of a friend and the distress of two sisters. To care for the sick is in the nature of God, and he created us that we care for distressed persons. These all are events happening in living in a mortal world. God can be revealed inspite of the cancer and he does.