Yo...SNEEKY... its still me.. *looks around with a slightly red face* :)
'cussing' ? hmmm.. I better goto my room and think about that....

Perhaps I allowed the ol 'flesh' to get the better of me eh :)

Wobbles... you have a point there about most of them eventually being found to be 'real' refugees.. but can you explain somethings ?...

1/ why is it that they often discard any documentation at the beginning, which apparently should have demonstrated their origins and assisted in the finding of legitimacy ?
2/ What changed that they were eventually found to be legitimate ?
3/ Why would the government find them 'not legitimate' at the first instance ?

My cycnicism is based on a number of cases where its just the 'man' who comes first.. leaving his family to face the persecution he claims to be fleeing. So, one suspects its really about 'testing the waters' rather than fleeing persecution. Usually, totalitarian or oppressive regimes will target the family of those they seek if that person has fled. So it does not stack up.

No matter to what degree things might be uncomfortable in the home countries of these people, if you 'bleeding hearts' want us to be more sympathetic to your views, the ONE thing you should do is STOP 'reading us their rights' in terms of UN this and UN that.. because when u do, you attack our sovereignty. I may have voted for the coalition, but I SURE DID NOT vote that we would sign up to any treaty which puts the UN sovereign over us. I think most would feel the same.

The simple solution to most of this is REMOVE our signature from the UN convention OR.... add proviso's and exclusions appropriate for our national cultural, social, religious,political interest, because unfortunately, the very existence of these refugees SHOWS how important these things are.

Wendy.. I would have grave reservations about bringing even Greeks here these days...

You said:

"Greeks and others who came in the past really wanted to make a life here"

I read a story in the paper the other day, where this THIRD GENERATION lady said at a greek cultural get-together "We are so happy being GREEK" or words to that effect.

I would have thought that after 3 generations she would have said she was 'Australian' rather than GREEK. So, whats going on here ? did they come here to be 'Australians of Greek heritage' ? or.. "Greeks building a new little Greece here" ?

Those of us of Anglo/Scot/Irish/Celtic background, don't (as far as I know) call ourselves "Scots or English" etc. We are Australian. But once there is a predominant culture established, others who are invited to share this nation, should do so with a goal of respecting and sharing the identity into which they arrive. i.e. Australian first, Greek 2nd. and Aussie first English 2nd.

It is not unreasonable to expect migrants to recognize and respect that this is an English language/culture. If they cannot, then please, don't come. If already here and cannot..then please go away :)

So, for me, it is most important that 'cultural expectations' of Australia for new comers is UNDERLINED IN BOLD TYPE in any visa application by foreigners.

1/ You will be expected to seek a self identification as 'Australian' when you arrive here.
2/ You will be assessed after a period of time as to your progress in this.
3/ Failure to embrace this new land and culture AND IDENTITY will result in the withdrawal of your visa !
4/ You will be expected to inculcate into your children these same values and attitudes.

and so it goes on... Im sure it could be better worded to sound less 'blunt object'-ish :) but I think you get the idea.

I'm not convinced that it is reeeeally you - I am still a bit of a doubting thomas - time will tell. Rgds Sneek

Nice try Sneek pete . However I am sure you have another covert name. I am not worried about greeks blowing up the place.
They share the same sense of humour even they are mostly not of extreme nature.

Anyway i am sure you will appreciate having Jolanda back.

Enjoy nothing lasts forever.