Scout has shared with us that she has had an abortion by choice. Is she saying she made an informed CHOICE to become pregnant so she could make an informed CHOICE to abort her child? Is she then fully informed on how pregnancy occurrs, or did she discover this by mistake?

Where was her informed and responsible choice as an adult in the first place to avoid a pregnancy? The pill and condoms are readily available in every Pharmacy if she choose not to abstain to avoid a pregnancy. She chose to become pregnant so she could make an informed choice to abort the life of her child. There is a glareing lack of responsible behaviour and informed choice evident, it is only in dire straits that this secondary choice is made. Hardly at an optimon time to be well informed and wise, if wisdom and information in choice making is not normal practise. Was she in the first place really making decisions for her optimum life and wellbeing?

I wonder how many children she has sucessfully reared to maturity by choice? From reading her post it would appear she suffers guilt from her choice for which she transferrs blames to the Church. In other of her posts she despises the right of a woman to have children because in her view the world is overpopulated.

Unless she has had a sucessful family and has given hope and vision to her children of a future then all her guilt and despair is merely a smoke screen of blame toward people making responsible life decisions.

"Philo has demonstrated his complete lack of understanding of a woman’s right to choose. Choice is the right, the power and opportunity to decide what is the optimum decision for her life and wellbeing. Good choice can only be made when fully informed."

How did you become "fully informed" on your religious beliefs, Philo? It's a matter of personal opinion as to whether the Bible is really God's word. It's personal opinion as to whether the Bible should be regarded as literal or allegorical. [Or please yourself to suit the situation.] Some of it could be regarded as very sensible advice indeed, such as "Love your neighbour as yourself". Other parts are absolute nonsense and are carefully avoided by those who want to push a literal interpretation onto everyone else.

I'm not going to try and put words into your mouth, or accuse you of psychological feelings which you may or may not have. Just a straight question, how did you become fully informed?

Have you had a look at my link regarding young people in some Western European countries having a significantly lower incidence of unwanted pregnancy and abortion than young people in the US? And the suggested reasons as to why this is so? If not, then why not? After all, it's great to be fully informed, isn't it? If so, then I would appreciate your comments.

Philo,
Seems you just can’t help yourself sometimes….

Scout has written a number of times in the past that her abortion was due to an abusive relationship. Her decision was to not bring a child into the world while that relationship continued. That she fell pregnant is no reflection on her ability or attempts to avoid the pregnancy. For all you know (and may even not particularly understand all that well) is that she was assaulted by her then husband and forced to partake in the event leading to her abortion.

That you cannot even conceive of circumstances under which a woman falls pregnant without their ‘choice’ being involved just goes to show how ignorant you are of women and their world at times.

I too work in areas dealing with assisting many people and I have come into direct contact with raped and abused women, mistreated and manipulated women and other victims which resulted in pregnancy. For the most part their first concern was ‘am I pregnant? I don’t want that man’s child’. Can you not understand this?

If dealt with at an early stage, even the most extreme doctor would have to agree that a termination deals with a grouping of non-specific cells. Yes they may become a human – but not for some time. As rex states, you may have your view but do not judge others who do not follow your creed.

I am more saddened by your personal attacks on Scout – something decidedly less Christian than you claim. And if you want to try the ‘she started it’ routine, how about that often stated Christian trait of ‘turning the other cheek’?

Rex,
On topic, I learned two principles:

1. All life is sacred and must be respected as creatures designed by God. All species play a part in ecology and must be respected for their part.

2. That a new life begins at the time of conception. That taking a breath was merely an independent step for the new life apart from the mother. Their brain functioned and heart began beating only weeks from conception. This was part of their life journey; even as they cannot procreate after taking a breath is also a part of their journey. That breathing oxygen is not the beginning of their life journey.

Farm raised I've seen chickens hatched, dogs, cats and pigletts born and knew they began their journey from the time of fertilisation by their male parent. Before eight was involved in breeding calves with Junior farmers. I knew a calf began when the bull was united with the cow, or similarly the boar with the sow at their heat. That life began at conception was my natural conclusion from observation.

That the bull be restrained from mixing with immature heifers so they didn't become pregnant. I've bread and assisted in the birth of many thousands of calves over years.

I can tell you in every case the mother protected their young vigorously. This taught me they respected life and protected offspring with passion.

I've seen a large brown snake disturbed as we approached it in a thunderstorm open her mouth so seven or eight young could dive down her throat. She cared for her young with sacred devotion to allow them entry till the threat was past.

I've watched the devotion of a nest of ants move every egg in a nursery to better protection from some threat. They believe their offspring is sacred and valuable even to the last unhatched egg.

It seems only humans destroy their offspring for some more personal dream. I learned responsible restrains must be placed on immature so unnwanted pregnancy did not occurr. This is the basis of my opinion and how I draw my conclusion.

Thank you Reason and Rex

All I have gleaned from Philo's attacks on me is that he eschews empathy and understanding in favour of self-righteousness and judgement. What really chills me is that Philo claims to counsel women in distress. He reminds me of the doctor who confirmed my pregnancy. I suffered because of the judgemental attitudes such as his. However, I have never regretted my decision to have an abortion. BTW while I had very extenuating circumstances for my decision this is beside the point; every woman has the right to decide what is best for her. We have more than enough abused and unwanted children as it is.

I am unsure why Philo is drawing analogies between animal behaviour and human - all mother's defend their babies; we are not discussing babies. Many species of animals absorb foeti into themselves when times are hard, for example kangaroos. The difference between animals and humans is that we can make conscious decisions regarding our fertility.

Philo still hasn't answered my question regarding the pregnant victims of rape or incest. He prefers to cast aspersions.

Given rigid attitudes of people like Philo, I don't see how Anti-choice proponents can ever work with Pro-choice people. It is an oxymoronic argument to make. For Pro-choice proponents women can choose whether or not they want to continue their pregnancy, whereas anti-choice give only one option.

Suggesting that a fully informed choice is to abort, because the mother feels if it lives will destroy her life, is not an informed choice. She has no clue what the alternate outcome is if the child be allowed to live. Mothers who made the choice to give birth to the child rather than abort have no regrets. The joys of sharing life together far outweigh the possible loss of lifestyle.

In cases of rape, pregnancy is rare but if immediate action is taken to spermicide the possibility of pregancy is zero. In the case of a husband raping his wife to make her pregnant without mutual planning she ought to be responsible by being on the pill. To not be planning children but having sex without methods to avoid pregnancy is irresponsible.

It's equally self righteous to be imposing upon society what I believe is poor values about life and death. It is equally abhorent to me as was child sacrifice to Molech. I'll always condemn an attitude that treats the taking of a life as a right of choice. The normalising of a set of values that I find abhorrent I will condemn. If the right to take a human life is enshrined in law I will always find unnaccetable. In fact in NSW abortion is not legal unless it is the save the life and health of the mother.

You might feel it is your right to condemn my attitude as abnormal, that is your right; but please demonstrate the principle to take the life of an unborn is established in natural creation. The Spirit that designed the life of all species we are answerable to in how we have lived our lives.

If there is already a precedent set by some mammel, other than man, that they choose to destroy in the womb their offspring then please bring it foward. The foetus of a kangaroos shrivels up because the mother has insufficient nourishment to produce nourishment for the infant. This is not the same as a healthy mother deliberately destroying the life attached to her.