Comment by Mike Clarke – Page 1

The arrogance, stupidity and blind faith in the renewable energy myth are all part of Ms. Milne’s argument. Let’s dissect her argument under those headings of arrogance, stupidity and blind faith in renewable energy.

Arrogance: The Greens, The Democrats, the ALP and for that matter the Australian Liberal Party have no influence over China in terms of human rights, environmental performance or their method of government. We can be individually appalled (Bob Brown’s favourite word) at China’s record on human rights and the environment, but in reality our concerns mean no more than farts in our own underpants, so why keep harping on these points in terms of international relations/trade.

Stupidity: China has enough uranium to make all the bombs that it could ever possibly need, and further enough uranium to power all it existing and planned nuclear vessels for hundreds of years to come. In fact they have around 50,000 tonnes at a cost of less than $40 USD/tonne (by comparison Australia has greater than 1,000,000 tonnes or 30% of the World’s resources at less than $40 USD/tonne), on OECD/IAEA figures. What China is looking for is reasonably priced and readily available nuclear fuel supply for its rapidly expanding civil nuclear industry. China can buy from Australia, with its strong use and dissemination regulations, or from Kazakhstan, Canada , South Africa, Namibia or others.

China is looking to have about 40 by 1000 MWe reactors in service post 2020. The total fuel requirements of these reactors will be around 8000 tonnes per year; this being a non sustainable drain on China’s indigenous uranium supply. If China were to build 40 by 1000 MWe coal fired power stations instead of nuclear plants, the coal demand would be around 100 million tonnes, which would translate into around 300 million tonnes of carbon dioxide. Since China is already planning to expand its coal fired power generation capacity, using its very considerable coal resources (resources greater than Australia’s), any reduction in China’s coal demand should be welcomed by those concerned with anthropomorphic greenhouse gas generation.

Comment by Mike Clarke – Page 2

Blind faith in renewable energy and an obsession against nuclear energy, the mantra of Professor Ian Lowe. The following paragraphs seem to be taken out of one of the many speeches by Ian Lowe, “nuclear power is not the answer. It is too slow, too expensive and too dangerous, and generates waste with no safe disposal. Renewable energy wins on all counts: speed, cost, safety and effectiveness”. Nuclear power has matured to where its installation and commissioning can match that of coal. The new Finnish power station is scheduled to take four years, and provide a very useful 1100 MWe. The cost, capital and operating – inclusive of fuel and decommissioning, is compatible with coal and the Finns will be getting a secure and greenhouse friendly base load generation facility for their Euros. It beats renewable energy in terms of energy security, availability and price. As to safety, the western civilian nuclear programme has an excellent safety record, and since China will be using western technology, the same safety regimes will apply.

Nuclear waste disposal and fuel recycling should be the responsibility of the seller. Australia should be looking at selling enriched nuclear fuel elements, being high value elaborately transformed manufactures, as against low value yellow-cake. We should further take responsibility for the waste as well a fuel recycling. By taking this extended interest in our nuclear fuel, we will be assisting the World with improved nuclear security, and ourselves with an improved national income.

Will Australia take this opportunity for going beyond just being an energy/coal quarry? If the Milne’s, Lowe’s and Brown’s of this World have their way; NO, but perhaps there are more sensible heads in the next generation. Not having nuclear profits will cost us dear.

Lets put it this way for all the profit driven loonies, coal is no good for greenhouse, uranium is the only mineral we can mine that can be made into a nuclear bomb and dropped on us by the country we sell it to, it is the only mineral to be known to overheat in the power station, and explode, remember Cherboble? Alternate energy is the ONLY safe way to go, we should sell our technology in the areas of solar, and wind generation and also hydro electricity, thank you one and all.

There are some interesting points made in this thread. Money now, money later vs the risk of nuclear bombs and waste.

The simple facts are that China already has the bomb. They have Uranium enrichment facilities. How many more bombs would they make? Should we not see iron-ore to China because it ends up in the bomb casing. Should we not sell gold because it ends up it the microchips that control the bomb functions. No logical argument in that.

Reactor Safety. Well, they are not safe. There is no such thing as a safe level of ionising radiation. But it is all around us. Radon gas, a natural byproduct of Uranium decay exists in our houses. Sunshine is full of Ultra-Violet light. Contrary to popular belief, Chernobyl did not go critical - It just leaked.

Waste. Now here is where the problem is. Until someone comes up with a means to stabilise (stop leaching) of Actinides (such as Plutonium, Americium etc) then there is no solution. Ceramics, such as the CSIRO's Synroc go someway, but stabilisation and neutron criticality events are only guaranteed not to occur for up to a mere 1000 years. Some of the waste isotopes need 400,000+ years for it to be safe. Longer than Homo Sapien has been around for, letalone any civilisation.

MikeC refers to, "The arrogance, stupidity and blind faith in the renewable energy myth".

While nuclear energy may become a viable part of the energy mix, it would be more helpful, MikeC, to discuss the renewable energy reality rather than the myth.

The New York Times reported yesterday, "With big Boost From Sugar Cane, Brazil Is Satisfying Its Fuel Needs":

QUOTE
... less than three years after the [petrol/ethanol] technology was introduced, more than 70 percent of the automobiles sold in Brazil, expected to reach 1.1 million this year, have flex fuel engines, which have entered the market generally without price increases...

For each unit of energy expended to turn cane into ethanol, 8.3 times as much energy is created...

Brazilian producers estimate that they have an edge over gasoline as long as oil prices do not drop below $30 a barrel...

Some [sugar] mills are now producing so much electricity [from burning bagasse] that they sell their excess to the national grid.
END QUOTE

Brazil expects to become energy self-sufficient this year, no longer depending on importing oil.

Like nuclear energy, there are a whole lot of complications with ethanol energy, not the least of which is land hosting rainforest or crops for human consumption being hijacked to fuel cars.

Somebody once observed that for every complex problem there is a simple solution - and it is always wrong.

This is as true of nuclear technology as it is of renewable energy options.

MikeC could usefully try a little less arrogance and blind faith himself.

Be concerned because the Chinese communist regime is a liar and very unstable. Not less than 2 days after the nuclear treatment pact was signed by Premier Wen in Australia, Dow Jowns news (see below) released news that Chinese regime sold nuclear missiles to Iran who were testing them --- the 3rd one that week.
Short-sightedness is not Mr Howard’s problem. Its his greed and willingness to give up world peace, throw away hard won freedoms of democratic rights here in Australia and kowtow to brutal dictatorships. One of his closest advisors is Mr Downer who has been secretly working for the communist regime well before he got into power.

China Insists Its Arms Sales Are Lawful

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

BEIJING (China insisted Thursday that its arms exports are lawful amid reports that it sold torpedoes to Iran, which test-fired them last week.

"China has normal, conventional military trade with other countries which abides by China's policies and law and agreements China has signed," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said at a regular briefing.
Iran said Wednesday it had successfully test-fired its third missile within a week. The test follows that of two other missiles and two torpedoes since March 31.

The test come as tensions are high over its nuclear program. The United States and France have accused Iran of seeking enrichment as a part of a secret program to build nuclear weapons. Iran denies the charge, saying its nuclear ambitions are confined to the generation of electricity.

China is one of Iran's long-time allies and trading partners.

Washington has in the past sanctioned Chinese companies or individuals, accusing them of violating American or international controls on transfers of weapons technology to Iran.

There is no talking sense to these communist brutal dictators for they don’t listen or apply even the most basics of Human rights to their very own people. The Howard Govt does not listen either and his mentors are the Chinese communist regime. So what hope do have of them honouring any agreements.