It always amases me that politicians are supposedly closer to God, then the Churches who oppose the wars.... God has nothing to to with war, a kind an mercifull God should step in and impose Peace.

It is obviously the Christian fundamentalist cults, for example in Senator Barnaby Joyce's words "the lunatic right" whose ridiculous interperatations hold sway. This was and is all about ego's and oil, but has become a platform for terrorists everywhere. The yanks have bitten off more than they can chew, but typical of the yanks, are now planning to add Iran to their list. Australia will of course join and continue to play the Deputy Sherrif role, and do anything asked, of her, to try to legitimise another crazy yank war.

There is three monkeys leading this invasion, Bush, Howard and Blair. Our saviours, the Trinity of the Anti-Christ.. You are forgetting the big picture, while attention is drawn to the Middle East, and Howard Government is throwing resources into this “Fray of woe,” with no end in site, except more death and Destruction. In the meantime, China is the winner, because all these three are contracting out the “Jobs” That their own workers could and should be doing. Sooner we run out of oil, the better. May be then those Who lead us will be people of wisdom, and not foolish monkeys. USA has been the biggest exporter of weaponry, since god knows when, and still they point the finger at the other chaps ‘splinter in his eye!' Who armed Iran & Iraq in the first place, and what with, I ask? Look back at Bush Snr's Résumé, and Check what the scandal was with drugs, and what the money was used to prop up!

The idea of a 'god' is nonsensical, but while you have Muslims waging war in the name of their god, it is only to be expected that Christians will invoke their god somewhere in the process of waging a war.

Rather one sided, Taya Fabijanic.

Leigh,
When I was young, Australia had it's own expressions, not yank one's, one of those expressions was "two wrongs don't make a right"

God has left the building

I most sincerely wish that God would give them all a good thump for using his name to push their own ideology.
And that goes for Americans, English,Australians,Muslims and any one else who claims that Himself speaks for them.

God is the fall guy for human greed.

After all, you can do anything as long as its in his name.

Pathetic. Religion is the real evil, with god as the figurative scapegoat to justify the actions of the evil.

Wars etc etc. Kick religion to the curb, and put the cards on the table, yes we are evil and if we say our actions are in the name of the lord its ok i can have no conscience, and my masses of followers of god will support me and my cause.

Religion will restrict our evolution, always has, always will.

Part One

Good on you, Lynda for bringing such as interesting discussion into our group. Certainly better than sniping and firing at each other. let's hope your suggestion of a sort of contest for all will bear fruition.

Although having spent many hours of retirement from the farm engrossed in study trying to make up for what one missed through having to leave school early during the onset of the Great Depression, one part of learning that has stuck in the mind, is to always look back and guage whether one's success was based on good luck or good judgment. Using such bush insight, and being a bit of a storyteller, we might say that it is or was in bush pubs where such talk takes place - sort of casual but having more than a grain of truth in it.

We might imagine such hobnobbing bringing out how Johnny Howard has been so fortunate to have China copying Karl Marx’s early formula for
using Western capitalistic principles to enable the proletariat to at first get on its feet. Not that Karl Marx possibly thought much about China, but we can now see it as a principle.

But we could doubt whether Howard would see it this way having obviously more knack than historical knowledge otherwise he would never have followed George W’ into Iraq. Tony Blair the same, even though he was an Oxford graduate. Returning to Howard, we wonder if he realises that much of the problem of too much money chasing too few goods, is being offset certainly in Australia by record flows of cheap Chinese consumer goods into our shops, particularly clothing and hardware, creating record amounts of consumer contentment.

Another bush saying, and possibly we could relate it to Socratic reasoning, was to think down deep while taking a God’s eye view of problems, especially political. My goodness when we look at the Middle East that way it is easy to see where the trouble is - as Mubarek said to a British reporter a year or so ago. “Simply Western intrusion and injustice!”

Part Two

Now to add tiny Israel with its original suggested return to the Promised Land, over which Britain after WW2, predicted trouble ahead between the Jews and the Arabs. Now Israel with its illegal arsenal of nuclear rockets backed by America, has really proven that it was not the right thing to do for the whole Arab world democratically. Instead, Israel with its people of ultra-intelligence, but with almost an insane desire to prove themselves, along with its atomic arsenal and American backing, would certainly be worrying a Great God up there, if He was truly democratic.

And as for Iran, there is little doubt that Iran only wants to go nuclear, because those Israeli atomic warheads are surely pointing right at her.

Am also disgusted at some of the comments about Iran, not only in Perth's only newspaper "The West Australian" but also some of our group, calling most referments to Middle East history before WW2, Old Pap or Looney Leftist.

It is interersting that many Old Pappeteers, were praised for strong insight while doing American history and politics, Lynda. Some of us Cold-War warriors, as some mistakenly still call us, because we are much older - while others smilingly joked about the phony Biblical expression - “From Deserts the Prophets Come”.

George C, WA - Bushbred

What worthless drivel. Clearly the author is unhappy with anyone justifying a war on grounds of helping the Iraqi people escape a murderous dictator. Clearly Taya would have prefered the iraqi people to have stayed under the viscious oppression. How very noble you are.

The author is even more aghast at Bush calling someone "evil". Shock horror. But, then, is this not rank hyprocrisy as the author seems more than happy to paint Bush and Blair as bad, evil, wrong. Live by your own standards Taya, and stop bringing this self-righteous crap as if it was something more than an anti-freedom pap piece.

aspro

your comment demeans Fraser.

As a USA Navy Korean War veteran and two sons who were in the Navy, I think this Iraq war is a farce and Bush has got the USA in quicksand! If you get to view my site (http://www.voai.org) and click Founder (2nd page)and scroll to the bottom ) you will see my military service. George Bush may not be drinking, but if you read about the Dry Drunk syndrome (also 2nd page), I think you will come to the same conclusion. Here's GB's site:(http://www.voai.org/everyone.htm).
How's living in AU? I've been all over the Middle East and Europe and hope to get there some day.

Is there a DRY DRUNK in the White House?
Bush has got the USA in quicksand! If you get to view my site (http://www.voai.org) and click Founder (2nd page)and scroll to the bottom ) you will see my military service. George Bush may not be drinking, but if you read about the Dry Drunk syndrome (also 2nd page), I think you will come to the same conclusion. Here's GB's site:(http://www.voai.org/everyone.htm).
How's living in AU? I've been all over the Middle East and Europe and hope to get there some day.

Posted by Norska, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 2:56:42 PM

From a Korean Navy War Veteran - 1948-1953

Here's a story nobody would think of running at a time when we are at war. I've been in the substance abuse field for over fifty years and know what I'm talking about. When this war broke I told my wife we have another "Gunga Din" fiasco on our hands (for those who do not know who Gunga Din was check Google or other engines out). I've worked in the Middle East and have a pretty good idea of how the arab thinks about the west. I saw a head come off and two hands chopped off in the main square called "Chop Square", Riyahd, Saudi Arabia.
Here's the USA's president in spades.

http://www.minnesotarecovery.info/literature/drydrunk.htm.

This is a portrait of a dry drunk. Someone who stops drinking, but never changes. This is Bush!

http://www.voai.org/geobushdrydrunk.htm.


Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity
Grandiose behavior
A rigid, judgmental outlook
Impatience
Childish behavior
Irresponsible behavior
Irrational rationalization
Projection
Overreaction

C'mon you blokes, you know ,that Johnny Bonsai is a man of God, killing innocent people is good we are the Deputy Sherrif we follow the God, GEORGE. w.Bush into the battle agianst the Mulsim population. Go JWH, IT MAY BE your last opportunityt to wreck Australia's neconomy!

If anyone is interested in alcoholism let me know. Go to my site http://www.voai.org. If you want to review my book go to the 2nd page and pop the book cover. All comments (even negative ones)are welcome.
Sorry for the duplication about Bush and his Dry Drunk personality. But I must have screwed up somewhere along the way getting online with the Forum.
Let me be the 1st to apologize for my country (USA) for getting everybody into this Iraq mess. Believe me, most of us disagree with Georgie. Impeaching him isn't good enough. We think even his father disowned him for his idiotic ways. He doesn't care how many of our kids (all countries)get killed or maimed, just as long as he gets what he wants...yesterday!

Norska

I appreciate your input and perspective. It is good to hear from an American and in particular one who has had military experience.

My father returned from WW2 an alcoholic. I wound up married to one - neither managed to 'dry out'. I am aware of many of the illusions about themselves and the world in general alcoholics hold.

However, you are saying even though Bush has stopped drinking he still holds to many illusions - it would explain alot. I know that the brain is damaged permanently - but to what extent and to what degree of recovery I am unsure.

So what is the excuse for our squeaky clean Prime Minister? Not a drinker (so far as I know) he only began proclaiming his belief in Christianity when he began his relationship with Bush.

It is amazing how many Aussies say they disagree with Howard - so how was he voted back?

I discovered an Iraqian blog recently which details the day to day lives of a family living (surviving) in Iraq. It makes for rivetting reading. Bush, Blair & Howard should take note - instead of the B/S they apparently are being fed by their 'advisors'.

http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

"Iraqi blog
Saturday, March 18, 2006

Three Years...
It has been three years since the beginning of the war that marked the end of Iraq’s independence. Three years of occupation and bloodshed........

April Fool's Day 2006
Or 'kithbet neesan', as it is known in Arabic.

If the current Iraqi government should choose ANY day for their day- what better day than April 1? It’s appropriately named ‘Fool’s Day’, after all.

They have been foolishly trying to get a government together since they first announced the election results. And we’ve been patiently waiting. It’s like being under the threat of punishment for weeks and weeks at a time and finally just wanting to have the punishment over with....."

I recommend people read the blog - it is updated regularly.

Regards

To Alan Grey,

Could say your answer to Taya is rather drivelous too, matey. Could say in fact she has a better grasp of the Iraq problem than you have. And, indeed which proves that a strong study of history and philosophy might greatly help to teach you what is really going on. Mostly just a greedy grab for the Iraqi black stuff, which also will be the same with an attack on Iran.

Ever heard of a Dyarky Democracy, Alan. You can find out by a study of colonial India, where certain provinces if they behaved themselves were offered self-government, but it turned out an ersatz goverment, with every important government minister matched by a British commissar or commissioner. You can bet your life that democracy in Iraq if it ever happens, will be the same, Alan. What do you think the massive green zone is the fore-runner of?

bushbred,
Alan Grey, waffles on about relieving Iraq of their oppresive dictator, that is not the reason {supposedly} we went there. Alan must have short memory syndrome, we went there because Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could be launched at us within 45 minutes{the same one's the yanks and Isreal have, of course the later countries are illegal, but they are mates with the yanks, so turn a blind eye} and we were told that Australian troops would only be involved "for a few months" who may not live in the real world old mate, but for those of us who do, this situation constitutes lies and hypocracy. If you can't understand what bushbred is so eloquently telling you, I would suggest you buy a nice home on the planet Zircon, and be happy in your ignorance.