Well why stop at having a prison for people we suspect of terrorism (with no evidence produced or charges laid) and beating and humiliating the prisoners?

If strength is the only thing a terrorist respects, let's torture these suspects more. Call flashing your tits at them torture? Those soft lefty soldiers don't know what real torture is. Put bamboo under their nails! We have ways of making them talk. Find out what village/town/city they're from and bomb it! Surely if there is one terrorist from there, there is a network there?

Why risk even one innocent western life at the expense of those filthy, expendable Middle Eastern lives? (Why make factual claims when I can ask rhetorical questions?)

Actually, the U.S.A. has enough firepower to eliminate the whole Middle East, so I say go for it. Maybe then, the suicide bombers will learn to fear death, and will not be so extreme.

Of course, then we have to worry about reprisals from those unAustralian Australians hiding amongst us, so we might need to agree with American policy there too.

We can tap all the phones (we don't have to worry about a president ignoring the constitution and all its pesky "protections" that only encourage attack, we have a prime minister for that; actually, if the constitution is inconvenient or downright detrimental to Australian policy, why bother following it? I'd say, "let's all agree to disband the constitution", but that defeats the point; we want our government to not feel constrained by it whether or not we agree), give police the power to arrest, hell, shoot to kill, anyone they suspect of terrorism, or dissent (which only weakens us and encourages terrorism, and so is as bad as terrorism), and even have daily police inspections of our homes to ensure no one is hiding anything.

Remember, my right to not be killed by a terrorist is more important than the inconvenience of you having to show police through your home every now and then. Especially if your skin is a different colour, you woman hating, child eating, anti-beer guzzling, suicidally-psychotically-aggressive-yet-somehow-shady-and-hidden BASTARD!

Ted have to agree with your observations. The ancient Middle Eastern mind cannot submit to anything other than Allah and to fail is a matter of religious pride. Note their self indoctrination when undertaking conflict, "Allah is great". Victory is the only concept they will accept in the name of Allah. Peace Agreements or conciliation is not known in their vocabulary - such concepts are failures. Because in their mind Allah must rule supreme, no compromise.

It's an indication of the Lapkin/AIJAC mindset that I am deemed "the enemy". Perhaps I'd better pack my bags for Camp Lapkin. Now, in trying to tie the Palestinian Hamas to al-Qaida, Ted suggests I read the "Hamas covenant" (shouldn't that be 'Charter', Ted?) which, he states, is "in overt alliance with al-Q", "subscribes to the al-Q vision of a global Caliphate" and "explicitly states that the creation of a Palestinian Islamic state upon the ruins of Israel is the first step towards the the achievement of the global jihad objective." Which of the Charter's articles support your assertions, Ted, and considering that the Hamas Charter was drawn up in 1988, can you tell us when exactly al-Q and Hamas got together to jointly draft it? And could you also comment on claims that Israel, in the 80's, happily promoted the Islamic movement in the occupied Palestinian territories to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO?

Ted Lappin the spin you twist has no connection with the truth, I asked you a question to clear up all the crap, Why dont you and your mates get together call on God to come down to Earth to prove, tell all of humanity that commiting murder in Gods name is acceptable. we are being hoodwinked big time, I say we prove once and for all , Gods name is being used to commit the greatest crimes against humanity, maybe the God being worshiped is a antichrist disguised as the creator of the Universe,
God loves all human beings/ earthlings,humans created God Clubs, thats the bottom line, God will not appear as a witness to support evil.
Finally your lessons on Middle East history come from Zionist propaganda, before Palestine was annexed there were only 60.000 Jews living there, since then people/migrants who have no genetic link with that land have been migrating to Israel so now there are millions of Jews living there, and you might want to know Australia was the first Nation to approve the annexation of Palestine. by casting the first vote at the United Nations, all this greed and hatred is a result of people saying God gave them permission to take over the land of Palestine, so lets call their bluff, give God a chance to tell the truth, maybe he /she could appear on the steps of the Sydney Opera House, if God does not appear, we can all get back to loving our neigbours instead of killing them, what do you think Ted , I am sure you dont want God to have a say, to say God gave them permission. is a untruth that can be easily put to the test, mangotree

Ted,

"let’s all sit down around the campfire and sing kumbaya’ approach. Sorry, but it’s been tried"
Thats not the intent of my posting.
Israel never believed in having or supporting a Palestinian state. What was the meaning of the Israeli back to back concepts of 'land for peace' followed by 'land for settlers'?

Fatah was a corrupt organisation and the world expected Palestinians to vote in a free elections. The vote for Hamas was a vote of distrust in Israeli policies and lost faith in Fatah. You should accept who they chose and deal with it.

Its naive to ask a nation to vote then refuse to deal with the elections result if you don't like it. Who else were you expecting Palestinians to vote for?
I find it interesting that you believe that all things happening in the Middle east have nothing to do with your actions and/ or foreign policies!

Didn't the pull out of Gazza give Israelis new friends in the Arab world?

Gitmo is an example of the Orwellianisation of our society.

If a person is found guilty of a terrorist crime, then they must be imprisoned, not as terrorists but as a criminal. Being detained under these proposed laws will be a badge of honour amongst these fanatics. These laws, so easily by-passed by organised and determined terrorists are useless. They serve only as a tool to remove our civil rights.

It is unbelievable that Western Democracies just sit by and let governments take away the legal right of "habeas corpus ad subjiciendum" - the right of a prisoner to have the lawfulness of their detention determined by a Court.

Habeas Corpus is fundamental to our democratic and legal freedom. Without it we live in a police state. It may be Terrorists today, but tomorrow it may be Jews, Gypsies, the Homeless, or the political opponents of Western Governments.

This brings us to similar laws being introduced by the State juristictions in Australia.

The Federal Government has a legal duty to defend all States and Territories (Australian Constitution Section 119) against terrorism.

So why doesn't the Federal Government enact these terroism laws themself? Because they would need to change the Constitution removing Section 80 which guarantees "habeas corpus" and the right to trial by jury. If confronted with a Referendum would you say "Yes, I don't want Trial by Jury, Yes, I don't want the Rule of Law"? I think not.

This is not an issue about Terrorism, but of the rule of law in a democratic country. If we change our fundamental freedoms, then the terrorists, the Nazis, the Communists, all the bad guys in history have won, and the sacrifices of the past to defend our democratic principles will all have been in vain.

[A Society]"that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin - 1759.